How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing with Jo Casey + Holly Worton

Transcription

1 Thank you for downloading this transcript! You can listen to the original podcast here: Today s Guest I'm back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Jo Casey! Today, we talk about how to add more depth to your marketing. There's so much noise online, with everyone doing daily Facebook Lives, but is it really useful? Is business visibility about putting lots of crap out there, or is it more about creating deep, meaningful connections? I'd love to hear what you think of this format! Please comment and let me know. Also, we've got a whole list of topics that we want to discuss on this show, but please drop us a note in the comments and let us know what you'd like to hear us talking about. Thanks! About Jo Casey Jo Casey is a certified life coach, trainer and coach mentor. She s British, slightly nerdy and allergic to the marketing bullsh*t in the coaching industry. Founder of jocasey.com, podcaster, speaker, and writer for Coaching Blueprint, Mind Body Green and Tiny Buddha. Things that make me scream with glee: Freshly washed bed linen, watching my husband get all handy' around the place (DIY I mean), yellow wedge sandals, fabric stores, the sound of my kids giggling, Jesus Christ Superstar the musical. Spirit Animal: Lesley Knope Why you should listen to me about coaching: I've been training, coaching and mentoring coaches for 14 years and I built my own coaching and training business after a lot of initial trial and error. I've been where you are now and I love showing coaches like you how to pull out all of the things that will make your business stand out and attract the right clients to you, without wasting a lot of time on useless and expensive shiny objects. Things We Discussed Myers-Briggs INFP Kimra Luna Leonie Dawson Denise Duffield-Thomas Fabeku Fatunmise Joseph Campbell, The Hero with A Thousand Faces Transcript Holly: Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 212. This is your host Holly Worton and I am back with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Jo Casey. Today, we are going to talk about how to create deeper connections and how to add more depth to our marketing. Why are we talking about this? Because, there is so much noise online, people are doing daily Facebook lives, but is it really useful? Is it useful to just tick off the boxes of stuff to get out there and be visible? Is business visibility really about Page -1-

2 putting lots of crap out there or is it more about creating deep, meaningful connections through deeper marketing? I think it is the latter, and so does Jo, and so we are discussing how to create more depth in marketing on this episode. So, what will you learn today? We are going to talk about: how to get beyond just ticking off your visibility to-do list; how to share deeper stories about your journey; how to tell the difference between deep sharing and superficial sharing. We are going to talk about: what deep visibility actually looks like; how to tell the difference between exposure and intimacy; we are going to explore the questions you need to ask yourself, so that you can talk about the stuff that matters to you. We are also going to explore what kind of stories you can share to create deeper connections. So, I hope that you find this episode interesting and useful. This topic of deeper marketing is something that keeps coming up in conversations with my business friends and I. So, as always, when I notice that we start talking about the same things, over and over with different business friends, I know that it is time to put it to the podcast. So, hope you find this interesting and useful and thank you for listening. Holly: Hello, this is Holly Worton and Jo Casey and I are back with another cohosted episode. Today, we are talking about how to add more depth to your marketing. We are going to be talking about how powerful it can be when you move beyond just ticking things off boxes, like doing today s Facebook live and doing another podcast episode. And moving into having more deep, in depth, conversations with your community and sharing more in depth stories about your journey. And, we are going to talk about how you can tell the difference between something that s deep, something that s more superficial, and how to get beyond just ticking off the boxes and doing the stuff that a lot of people say you need to do to be more visible. So, we are going to be talking about deep visibility rather than kind of superficial visibility. So, hey Jo! Hey! Holly: Welcome back! I am looking forward to this one; because I am somebody I don t think I can do superficial very well! {laughing} Holly: Good; good, good, good! Well, I know I have been guilty of doing superficial, so I am happy to talk about all that stuff. So, let s talk a little bit about how can you tell the difference between something that s superficial, something that s deep. Like you said, you don t do superficial, so tell us about how you know you are diving deep enough. It s more to do with if you are familiar with the Myers Briggs, I am an Myers- Briggs INFP which means that I am basically, I m an introvert and I go deep. It is like I don t have the gene for small talk, I have really genuinely had to learn how to do small talk. Like, somebody had to tell me: just ask them about the weather, ask them what their plans are for the holidays, and I was like: I have no idea! Otherwise I will just stand there in silence, because I am Page -2-

3 really one to go: Hi, how are you? What s the worst thing that ever happened to you in your childhood? Holly: {Laughing} You know And socially that s not great! Holly: You must be a lot of fun at parties! Yeah I am a laugh a minute, so actually, coaching became a very natural progression for me; because I am the one at parties who everyone is telling their deepest, darkest secrets to, their breakup stories I am really good at holding space for people, I am a really great listener. So that s me at parties, you will find me in 1:1 conversation with somebody, probably telling me their tale of woe. So, yeah, the thing that I struggle with, and still do, with the whole kind of marketing and building a business, is how can you create a business with meaning, in this arena which very often seems very shallow and noisy and lots of people shouting. And how can you create those intimate conversations and have that depth. So, I guess I have had the opposite problem with it, from maybe what you are saying. Holly: Mm right, so you have never had to deal with the perils of being too shallow? {laughing} I would really like to, I would really like to just lighten up for goodness sake, yeah, I really struggle with that! Holly: This topic came up because it recently came up, this morning, in a session with one of my coaches; and so we were talking about how I need to step up and be more visible but not in a superficial way. Like, I need to be talking more about the deep stuff. And I have journeyed more towards that, but I feel like I need to take it even deeper. And I have found that since I began sharing kind of more aspects of myself and more about who I am and what I do, particularly the channeling stuff, which I always thought was a bit too weird to talk about, I feel like I am creating better connections with people. Because people see more sides of me that maybe they couldn t see before, that maybe I would mention on my podcast, or in conversation with people, but not as until last week that I actually did a video, that I actually did a video channeling my guides, and recorded it, and put it on YouTube and thought: oh my God, what am I doing?. That is so cool! That is! I love stuff like that. Whereas if you had been talking through what you had for dinner last night, I would just be like: ah. My daughter watches YouTube a lot, and she is seven, and there is this whole generation of kids who don t watch tv or movies or anything like that, they just watch YouTube. I marvel at these people who every day, these families, or these kids, will post a video of them just doing the most inane things in their lives, like: here we are going to the store, here we are opening some stuff, here I am cooking dinner. And my kid laps it up and I am like: I don t get that! Why? I want to find out about who these people are, and I think there is this thing online where we mistake intimacy, for just exposure. Holly: Yes, exactly! Exactly. And when I was talking about this with my coach this morning, I said: it is like the joke they used to make about Twitter: I don t Page -3-

4 How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing want to hear what someone had for breakfast this morning. We all know that Twitter has moved beyond that, but a lot of these things, social networks, when they started out they started as very superficial kind of connections. Yeah! Somebody said that when Twitter first started out it was just basically just mean to be people checking in with their friends, and thinking: I am in the club, come find me, and things like that. Whereas now, Twitter just seems to have descended into people yelling at each other. I think you are right and I think that one of the challenges as humans is, as we become more digitised, we still have this hard-wired need for connection, for story, for that human to human: I can see you, you can see me. And I think, what s interesting is that we are now finding out ways of how we can use technology to help us with that. Because I think especially with something like coaching, or being a service-based entrepreneur, you can t you are not just saying: Here s my fabulous, look you can see the quality, you can look at the design. Because that s not what we are selling is much more intimate service. So, people need to get to know us in a way that is a lot more intimate. And intimate is such a loaded word! I am realising as I am saying it - because that has its own challenges as well - you have to have really good boundaries around how close a relationship do you want? How much do you share? I think as an industry, we can t continue just doing the superficial stuff. People are so sick of the: six figures in six minutes type nonsense. Because, we know it is nonsense. Holly: And there is so much noise now. It is like, so many people doing daily live streams about superficial stuff, or, putting content out there for the sake of putting content. And, I guess to be visible, because I guess there is probably some marketing coach out there who says: you need to be x amount of things, a day. And I think that s where people fall into that trap of the hustle, the busywork and they are doing these daily live streams, is anyone watching them? Are they getting clients from them? Are they creating true connections, or are they just creating noise? Yeah, exactly. I am always of the mindset - this is an introvert thing -- of walking this line of: I know that I have to be putting content out there, but I don t want to be putting it out there just for the sake of it. And so, I would sooner send something out once a week that has some heart, and some thought behind it, rather than doing something everyday, which is me kind of going: hey, here is my morning walk today, or hey which is why I think I am not so good on things like Instagram, or Twitter (I gave up on Twitter a long time ago). My brain doesn t work in that way. There are some people who use those platforms better. And I am sure in fact I know there are people who are using things like daily live streams in a way that is really innovative, and really good, but there is an awful lot of crap out there! There are an awful lot of people who are just doing stuff for the sake of it, and they must be exhausted, not just us watching it, they must be exhausted too! Holly: Yeah exactly! Because they have got to tick off all the boxes of all the stuff that they have got to do, that their coach told them to do; or that they think need to do because they see everyone else doing it, and it creates this kind of spiral of exponential content growth, I don t know. So, for people who maybe Page -4-

5 How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing have been caught in this trap of just doing stuff for the sake of doing it, how do you think people can get past the superficial when they are showing up, and talk about the stuff really matters. I think that first of all you have got to identify for you what is the stuff that really matters. That s one of my favourite areas to work with my clients on. It is: what is your big message? What is your why? What is the stuff that s important to you? Because when you come from a place of that, then you have got some power and some depth behind you. So, for example, one of my clients is a writing coach, but she realised that one of her big, kind of, driving forces is feminism. And the fact that there are so few women writers compared to men that it is something ridiculous, it is like two-thirds out of whack; and what she wants to be doing is to be a feminist writing coach so that she can: even if you think your story is marginalised, I can help you write it, I can help you find a story in there, I can help you find the agents, I will walk you through that process but from a feminist perspective. So, I will respect your story, I won t tell you: oh that s not commercial, because it is chick lit; or something like that; I will value you. So, once she had that in place, then all of the content that she is starting to put out, and she does put a daily message out each day on Facebook, has totally switched, because it has some depth there, it has some power, but she needed to identify that first. So, I think it is really important that you go deep, and you think: What is it that I would fight for, and take a stand for, what is it that I want to change in the world. Because once you have got that, you have that oomph and that motivation to start talking about the stuff that matters. Like me, I don t just talk to people about how I will help them get more clients; I talk to them about: I will help you get your big message out in the world; I will help you to overcome your feminine conditioning so that you can get your big message out in the world; and when you are doing that, then you get more clients, then you generate more income, then you make more of an impact. But it was that piece behind it. I went through a phase where I felt like my marketing was a lot about: I help people get more clients, here s how to get more clients; here s some of the things to do. But, actually, if you don t have that big why behind it, if you don t understand what your purpose is, what your why is; if you don t understand what your clients really want, that just becomes really difficult, you are tap dancing for your supper type thing, and it is shallow for everybody. Holly: Exactly. It is much more effective when you have your big why there as well. Holly: Mm because that s what makes you different, that s what differentiates you from all the other coaches who work with coaches, who help them get clients, among other things. Exactly, exactly. So, how about you, what have you been finding? Holly: Well, this is just starting to think about this again from a different perspective. Because, I recently, when I launched my heart-centred energy work, a couple of months ago, ran a special to get people to try it out - it was a new thing, no one had ever heard of it - and I did a lot of the ticking the box thing; a made a Page -5-

6 How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing list in Asana of all the stuff that I wanted to do to get visible, a little bit every day, and I did the stuff and I ticked the boxes. And, that got me out there, I got clients; but it didn t feel great, it just felt like I was going through the motions of doing the stuff I had put in my Asana. And so the following month, I kind of went into hibernation, and did nothing to get clients, and as a result I didn t get clients! {laughing} because it felt like I was so burnt out from doing the stuff. And, I think some of the stuff that I put out there was good, some of it was probably not so good; but, it wasn t the deep kind of connection that I want to be making with people. So, I am really at a point now where I am starting to rethink my message, rethink I feel like I just did this not that long ago, but rethinking like what my message is, and what it is that I am here to help people with. Because, I think it is not what I originally thought it was, it is a lot more than just mindset, especially now that I am working with this new process that also involves energy work. It is more about creating big transformation at a deep level, so as I get clear on that, I think that s going to help me add more depth to my marketing and make deeper connections with people. It is like kind of connecting to your why as well. Holly: Exactly, that s the thing, if we are not connected to ourselves, if we are not connected to our why; and if we are not connected to why it is that we are doing this stuff: why are we putting the content out, why are we running our business; why all of the things? It is really hard to create content that creates that deep connection. Yeah, that s true. Holly: So, before we got on this call, we were talking about some examples of people who we really kind of feel like they dig deep. So, do you want to mention some of those people? You have mentioned Kimra Luna. Holly: Yes. Yeah, I think there is a certain line that many of the kind of the people that I like, who are doing some interesting stuff walk, and that is: sharing their expertise in a particular area, but also being able to show up as who they are, unapologetically. And one of the people who does this is Kimra Luna, and she talks about strategy, and branding and building online businesses, but she is very herself. She shares about her own struggles with anxiety, about being vegan mum to three kids, about being lonely in an online business. She shares the back story if you like, and she talks about what it was like to be on welfare and how building an online business kind of saved her from poverty and things. She does it very well, but she shows up as no one other than herself. She doesn t pretend to be anything else, if she doesn t like something she will say: I don t like that. If she does like that, she will go all in and say: I really like this. Somebody else who does this really well, but very different personality is Leonie Dawson. She again, has talked very openly about the fact that she is a woo woo hippy and she had issues around depression. Holly: And burnout. Page -6-

7 How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing And burnout, fertility, and the choice to have a second child even when she had decided she wasn t going to have a second child and she shares that stuff. I am not saying that you necessarily have to share your entire life, but you have to let people get to know you. Holly: Mm so you can t just be that one dimensional business person. Holly: Yes. No, especially as we are service-based entrepreneurs, people are buying us, they are buying our philosophy, they are buying our experience; they are hiring us, they are not hiring one of our team, they are not hiring an associate of ours, they are hiring us. So, you need to allow people to get to know you. And that s a tricky one, I have to say, my introvert I am not necessarily comfortable with that, again, I am not massively keen on sharing stuff about my kids, for example, or about my relationship with my husband. But what I am very open about is sharing my own personal journey, and experiences around my business, and my learning points. So, for example, I have something in my Facebook group, and in my group programme, we have a Friday failure post we show up and we share how we failed that week. Because I really believe that we need to detoxify this idea of failure for a start, because failure is a sign that you are trying stuff. The only way that you are going to grow, and you are going to to develop, is by trying stuff and you are going to fail. But, if you get so locked into: I can t fail, I can t fail, it is so terrifying and then you don t try stuff and you just get locked. So, I am really open about sharing my failures: the fact that I started a coaching business and it was a disaster, and the emotional impact that that had, and how I spent a few years in the wilderness before coming back and giving it another go. And how anxious that made me; and how I struggle with perfectionism, and some of the things that help me with it. And how it is an ongoing thing, and how I am a tightly-wound woman, and all of those things, and so I think one of the main modalities that I use in terms of my marketing is through my podcast. So, many of the people who then come on as clients will say, I feel like I already know you because of the podcast. But if I was just showing up on my podcast going, and here are ten ways that you can build your online following, number one. And not sharing that more human side of things then people would not know me, I would be no different from the bazillion of other people who have their coaching podcasts out there. Holly: And who can do a top ten list. Yeah and I think Denise Duffield Thomas is another great example, because she talks about money mindset, she talks about her money mindset blocks and all the crap that have come up for her over the years, and she talks about her blocks change as she grows her business and as she reaches new levels. And I think the great thing about her in sharing this is that her business has grown so much in the last few years, and she is still very open and transparent about the fact that blocks and mind crap still comes up for her. Where it shows up, and how it shows up in different ways; because I think it is so easy to see people that you perceive as having a sizeable business because they are making seven-figures, and more, but they have still got stuff, but most people aren t talking about that. So, I think that is really, really useful to hear from her. Page -7-

8 How to Add More Depth to Your Marketing And I think somebody else who is really good at this is Fabeku, who we have mentioned before, Fabeku Fatunmise, he has a Facebook presence where he basically just shows up and shares stories of his day a lot of the time, but they always have this killer point, and it might be: I helped somebody in the supermarket, or I saw somebody and they were at the produce aisle and this guy was just looking lost and so I went up to him because he is a hefty guy, I am hefty guy, I went up to him and said: it s confusing right? {Holly: laughing} And they get into this conversation, and helps him pick out some stuff to make himself for dinner, because it turns out that the guy s wife is, I think she might be in the hospital or something. It is always this real human moment that he shares and then he goes about his day. And you get this real insight into him as a person and just how he shows up in the world. Holly: And I think that the most important thing that I get from all the little stories he shares because most of them are not related to business is that he is a person who cares. He cares very deeply about people, and if he cares that deeply about some random dude that he sees in the produce section at the supermarket, how much does he care about his clients? Holly: Yes. Yeah, yeah totally. So, I think there is something in the stories that we tell, and the willingness to share our stories. I am crushing on Brené Brown at the moment, because she is somebody who is such a huge influence on me, and on my work, and she has recently released something called Sounds True, through rising strong as a spiritual practice. And so, I am now on my second listen of it and she just reiterates its point that we are hard wired for stories. And it is in sharing those stories, I think, that it allows us to connect with people. And I am thinking more and more about this in my work: what is the story that you are telling about your business? And if your story is right now: I have to show up as perfect, like I know everything, then people won t buy from me, then I think you are making your business more difficult than it needs to be; because actually when we show up with our human stories, when we share our missteps, when we share our fears, when we share our triumphs, yes. But when we share our..when we give the kind of backstory behind it, and we show who we are as people imperfect humans who still really do some stuff in some areas and can really help you with this, I think that s when we can build this deeper connections and that s when technology can really help us, because you can share those stories through podcasts, through videos, through writing, through blogs, through live streams. And get it out to more people. But, it is like: I have this idea that I want to sit around my campfire. Rather than just this broadcast out into I don t know the wilderness every day. {Both: laughing}. It s like lots and lots of people shouting, I think. When you are in a room where everyone is shouting, the person who is whispering, or who just starts gently singing a song is the one that gets noticed. Holly: Because they are doing something different! Yeah, exactly. Page -8-

9 Holly: It s that s simple, they are doing something different. And the deep stuff is the stuff that s going to get shared and that s the stuff that people are talking about, that s the stuff that s: oh my God I read this thing. They share it on Facebook, they share it on Twitter, they talk about it to their friends: I read this story that was really amazing. And that s the stuff that spreads through word of mouth, or word of click, because people remember the deep stuff, they don t remember the top ten list on how to make your Facebook livestreams better. No, exactly. So, have you got any things that you will go and try Holly? Or are you still in the ma-noodling about phase? Holly: Well, the first thing I am going to do is listen to the recording from this mornings session and take some notes, because there is a lot of gold in there and I need to kind of plan my way forward, starting with that. So it is about going forward, revisiting my message, really getting clear, because you know we change, that s the thing; like, whatever your message was last year, or the year before, or four or five years ago, is probably not going to be the same today, because we are all growing and changing. So, I need to think about what it is that I want to share with people; what are the conversations that I want to have; and what do I want to be talking about, and sharing in my podcast, my videos, my blogpost. You know, that kind of thing. Ah, I can t wait, I think it is going to be really exciting. Holly: How about you? I am noodling around with the idea of starting to do a bit of video, so maybe not so much live streams because again it is part of my introvert preference, I like to be able to prepare for stuff. I love teaching, I love teaching a class, so I am maybe going to teach some more live classes and webinars; but I like the idea of doing some video and sharing some more stuff on video. So, I have been doing a bit of reading up on how to do that, and yeah, maybe add that as a dimension. And, sharing more stories I think, I am really keen on this idea of: I want to share more of the 360 view of what running a business is actually like; I want to talk to more people about what are some of the things that have gone wrong, what have you overcome, that type of stuff, because I am so exhausted from all of the people just being so fabulously, fabulous and just winning. We are so tired of winning. It is all of that stuff and it is exhausting. Holly: {laughing} I am so tired of winning too, I win every second of the day! {laughing} We are winning so much now! Holly: You mentioned stories again, and I think this is really important because I do agree that people love stories. So, for our listeners, who maybe thinking well what the heck stories do I have to share? What kinds of stories are you thinking of sharing and what kinds of stories would you like to share or what would you recommend to someone? There are some good resources out there, some of the seminal work on stories is: Joseph Campbell, The Hero with A Thousand Faces. So you can google that, you can buy the book if you want to; but you can google it, Page -9-

10 there s loads and loads of different stuff and types of stories. So if you are that kind of left-brained, want to work through it logically, want to plan out and structure your stories, that s a really good resource. But, I think it is about being able to share the journey to something, rather than the finished result. I was just recording one of my podcast episodes before we jumped on Holly, and I am sharing the story of one of my first client disasters; whereas, at the time, it was so painful, looking back on it it was hilarious, I have been killing myself laughing just thinking: oh my god, I had forgotten, then that happened! I had been telling some of my clients in my group programme I have this programme called the Supernova Collective and I have been telling some of them about it, and they have been killing themselves laughing as well. But then also saying: I feel so much better, because I thought I was the only one who had things that went wrong with clients, or I was the only one who had put the thing out or announced my new website, and just crickets. You know, I think it is really important to share the full thing; because one of my big whys as well is that I don t want people to get to the point that I got to, which is you quit coaching, because it is hard, because you think that you are the only one who thinks you are not having a success; and actually it is not, for a lot of us it just takes a circuitous route and we need to tweak and pick yourself up again. I have said this before, this idea that resilience is about: you are going to have the failures, but then you need that bounce back ability, you need to be able to bounce back from that. So, I want to be sharing more of those stories and I want to put the successes in context as well. Holly: Yes, yes; I think that is really, really important because it gives more depth let me use that word once again to the successes because you can see the journey that someone took to get to where they are today, whereas with a lot of the bigger name coaches you just see where they are today and you don t hear so much about how they got there. Yeah. Holly: And I love the journey bits. Holly: Yes. Yeah, me too! Because the journey has hope in it. Whereas the finished product is just: it is almost impenetrable; it is like, I can t possibly do a six-figure launch, so what s the point? And honestly no you probably couldn t do a six-figure launch, unless you have got x thousand on your list, and a branding team behind you, and stuff like that; but that doesn t mean that you can t earn a living, that doesn t mean that you can t get clients, that doesn t mean that you can t start where you are and build from there. Holly: And it also doesn t mean that the person who did get a six-figure launch did not wake up one morning to start a business, build her website at 10am and then by 3pm had a six-figure launch. Exactly. Holly: It took years! Yeah, exactly. Marie Forleo was running her business as a side hustle for seven years. And I love going back to that story, because it will remind you Page -10-

11 that it is not overnight success but one of the things that the Internet does is it makes it look like it has all been really easy, and there hasn t been a journey. So, I am really into people sharing their journeys, I think that is one of the things that I am going to be exploring some more. Holly: Yay! We have good stuff to talk about! We do! Holly: So, should we wrap this up, I feel like we are kind of at the point where we have covered everything that we had mentioned that we were going to cover. So, hope that everyone found this to be useful. Holly: Yeah. Yeah! And, get in touch. Drop us a line, share your stories. I think this is the way that we can connect much more deeply as humans, is through sharing our stories and so yeah drop us a line, share yours, let s connect. Let s start building human businesses with some meaning and some depth, and shun all that shiny superficial stuff. Holly: Yay! So, you can connect with us at jo@jocasey.com; or holly@hollyworton.com what s the link to your Facebook group, Jo? It is: jocasey.com/thecoachescollective Holly: Excellent, and if you go to my website: hollyworton.com/group that will forward you to the Facebook group. So, I would love to see you in there. And that s all for now, I hope that you enjoy your exploration of how to add more depth to your marketing. And I hope you enjoy getting clear on what stuff that you want to be sharing; what are your stories, and connecting with people in a deeper way. And we look forward to seeing your stuff, so if you send us your links we will check that out too. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much Holly, this has been lovely as always. Holly: Thank you. Have a good day. You too. Holly: Thank you so much for listening and, as always, I would like to invite you to join me in my private Facebook group Business Mindset Alchemists, this is a Facebook group that is dedicated to exploring business mindset and how you can get the mindset you need to achieve your dreams, both in business and life - because it is all related, so if you are a woman entrepreneur I would love to see you in there. Just go to hollyworton.com/group and you will be redirected to the Facebook group, and I will welcome you in there as soon as I see your request to join. And, also I wanted to mention if you go to hollyworton.com/guest that will redirect you to a Google form where you can fill out some questions, if you would like to be a guest on this show. You may know that I am not usually actively soliciting guests for the show because I have got a massive spreadsheet of women that I want to get on here, and I don t do interviews very often, but I want to bring a listener on the show. I want to talk about: how the show has been useful to you; what you have Page -11-

12 learned from it; and how has exploring and working on your business mindset changed you and your business. So, if you are interested that s: hollyworton.com/guest. Get in touch, fill out the form and I will be going through them. Thank you as always for listening and remember to visit hollyworton.com/212 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you so much. Page -12-