How to Handle the Messy Middle in Business, with Jo Casey + Holly Worton

Transcription

1 Thank you for downloading this transcript! You can listen to the original podcast here: Background Today, we talk about how why no one tells you how hard it is in business. We delve into the messy middle that we discussed last time, and give you solid tips on how to get through it so you can build your business more easily. About Jo Casey Jo Casey is a certified life coach, trainer and coach mentor. She s British, slightly nerdy and allergic to the marketing bullsh*t in the coaching industry. Founder of jocasey.com, podcaster, speaker, and writer for Coaching Blueprint, Mind Body Green and Tiny Buddha. Things that make me scream with glee: Freshly washed bed linen, watching my husband get all handy around the place (DIY I mean), yellow wedge sandals, fabric stores, the sound of my kids giggling, Jesus Christ Superstar the musical. Spirit Animal: Lesley Knope Why you should listen to me about coaching: I've been training, coaching and mentoring coaches for 14 years and I built my own coaching and training business after a lot of initial trial and error. I've been where you are now and I love showing coaches like you how to pull out all of the things that will make your business stand out and attract the right clients to you, without wasting a lot of time on useless and expensive shiny objects. What You ll Learn Why no one tells you just how hard it is How to recognize when you're in the messy middle so you can do something about it What the icky bits have looked like for us How you can develop more resiliency to get past the messy middle with ease How to stay positive while still keeping it realistic Why entrepreneurship involves a constant state of expansion and growth How to deal with the ache after the growth when we step outside our comfort zone Things We Discussed Tanya Geisler Sherry Guyse Transcript Holly: Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 198. This is your host Holly Worton and I am here with another co-hosted episode with the fabulous Jo Casey. Page -1-

2 Today, we are going to talk a little bit about why no-one tells you how hard it is in business. So, in this episode our goal is to kind of help you find the way to stay positive, while still keeping it realistic, because there is that messy middle that we talked about in our last co-hosted episode. So, we are going to talk about: how to get comfortable with the messy middle; how to handle it; how to be more resilient so you can experience it and get through it without burning out, without spiralling down into a state of: my god this is never going to work. So, we are going to talk about: kind of, the never-ending onion that you have to peel when you are doing the personal development work that goes alongside being an entrepreneur; we are going to talk about that ache that you get after you step outside of your comfort zone and take some growth steps; we are going to talk about the signs of high performance and high integrity; and why these nasty little signs are actually a good thing; we are going to talk about ways you can handle the messy middle; the ways you can make it more easy; the ways that you can do mindset work; and the identity work that you need to do to really step up into that greater version of yourself to more easily achieve your business goals and build your business. I am so super-excited about this episode because we talk about some of the really specific ways that we struggled and I, for one, talk about some things that I have never talked about before in terms of fears and icky stuff that would come up for me before client sessions. We talk about crying before sending out newsletters and all that icky, yummy stuff [laughing]. So, we hope you enjoy this episode, we are going to be baring our souls to help you through the messy middle. So, I hope you find this episode useful; thank you very much for listening. Hi everybody, this is Jo Casey and I am here with Holly Worton and we are here for our monthly joint podcast. We are going to be talking today about the messy middle; and how to handle the messy middle. The messy middle is something that we referenced on our last joint podcast episode that we did; it's something that comes up a lot in the work that we both do with our clients, and it is something that comes up for us personally too because, you know, we are human beings and what we hope you will get out of this episode is the realisation that the messy middle is part of the process. And so, you may as well get used to it and find some strategies at how to handle it, so welcome Holly Worton! Holly: Hello! How are you? I'm good, I am having one of those, slightly frantic, slightly only just keeping the balls in the air days; which, yeah, is just life with business and children and dogs and just is, just is Holly: [laughing] But I am excited to talk about our subject today, because if you had listened to our last podcast episode, which was all about how Holly and I had been through; we had both been through kind of rebrands, and kind of elevated our messages, and had both had new websites done; and things like that. And our experiences had been Page -2-

3 very different in many ways, but the one thing that we did have in common was the period of having a messy middle; which is, to me anyway, the way I would describe it is: that bit where you have kind of taken off, you are off and you know where you want to go, but either you feel like you have got lost along the way or it is not happening fast enough or it all just feels like it is falling down around your ears. You just don't feel like you are making the kind of progress to the destination that you feel that you should be. And it is something that comes up a lot, it is something that I deal with a lot personally; and with my clients. Holly - what about you? Holly: Definitely. Actually, I was just doing a Facebook live right before we started recording this, and one of the women on the call said: it is really hard because I feel like I am taking two steps forward, one step back (like, the topic was on personal power), I feel like I really step into my power but then sometimes I fall out of it. And, you know, I said that's because the path from where you are to where you want to be, isn't a straight line, it is like ups and downs; ups and downs. And that is the messy middle. Like, sometimes you feel like you are taking all the right actions and sometimes you get to where you want to be and it feels good and sometimes it really feels like shit. And it is just because you are in that messy middle and you are on the path, so if you are having ups and downs, that's a good thing because you are on the path to where you want to be. Fantastic. Yeah, it is one of those things that I think, when you are on the other side of it, it's so obvious, but when you are in the middle it sucks. Holly: And that's what I said to her, I gave a specific story from my experience, and I said I can tell you the story because I m up here now, and I can look back, and I can see the path; but when I was on the path I was just like: what the heck is going on? It is SO frustrating! Yeah. So, is it worth us kind of breaking down some, kind of I don't know, I almost wonder if this is something where we come in with some myth-busting, because I think that there are some myths out there that make the messy middle harder? Holly: Yes, I think so. And I think that it is worth us saying as well, the reason we've decided on this topic was because someone in your mastermind programme or your Facebook group said: why does no-one tell you just how hard it is? Yeah; yeah; so, I am running this group programme at the moment called the Super Nova Collective which is just fabulous; I love all the women in there and the honesty and the way that they are showing up for each other. And they are so smart, and so switched on and so enthusiastic, and so skilled. And they SO want to build these businesses like yesterday, because they have got these big messages that they want to get out there. And they are like all entrepreneurs experiencing the ups and downs and the messy middles. And one of the women had posted in, we have a private Facebook group for the community and she said: why does nobody tell you that it's this hard? And then somebody else kind of joked: well, because nobody would get to sell their courses then in that case! Both: [laughing] But, I think kind of joking aside there is an element of that in that there are some great marketers out there selling programmes teaching people: how to become a coach; or how to become an entrepreneur; and they are maybe a little bit not they are going to emphasise the positive aspects of that path rather than the negatives, because they want people to buy their programme; but also because we want people to be going in with a positive, optimistic mindset, because we know that going at it with: this is never going to work isn t going to be helpful either. But then, oh sorry you are going to Page -3-

4 Holly: No, I was going to just to say, you are totally right, having your own business, being an entrepreneur is SO different from having a job. Now, it has been years since I had a job, but I remember what it was like, you know, you get the job, once you are there you've just got to do your thing; but when you are an entrepreneur you are constantly growing, you are constantly in that messy middle; you are constantly working on yourself, you know, trying to get to new places, and it is just; it is like life outside your comfort zone. And I think if you knew that I think a lot of people wouldn't go into it, but that's perhaps not the right reason to avoid it, I don't think entrepreneurship is for everyone, but, go into it if your heart feels drawn to it. You've got to know, it is not as easy as having a job, not that having a job is easy, but I do feel like for a lot of people it is easier because you are not in that constant state of expansion. Holly: Yes! Holly: Yeah! Yeah that is true, that expression: that constant state of expansion ; because it is kind of true, I say quite regularly, I have it written on my website that nothing has forced me to grow and to face my own stuff, apart from parenting and marriage, more than running my own business. It requires you to step up, it will bring up all of your stuff, it will, you know, you have issues over money, you are going to have to deal with them; you have issue over boundaries, you are going to have to deal with them; you have issues over self-worth, you are going to have to deal with them. Which is great, but also not easy. This isn't an easy path as you say, but the alternative is for many people staying in that job for, you know, forever and it slowly kind of crushing your soul. I am a big fan of taking up other work while you are building up your business. I am a big fan of have a job on the side, keep your day job at first, most coaches I know start building this as a side hustle. And, so, there's a difference between saying: okay I am building something on the side and this job is just temporary to the: I am going to stay in this job because it is too difficult and too scary to do the other thing; even though this is like a slow crushing death of my soul, staying in this job forever, with no light at the end of the tunnel. And I have kind of been in both positions, and I know which is better, definitely kind of knowing that you are working towards your business, but yeah, that doesn't mean it's easy. And I wonder if this is, I don't know if I just sound really old now, I wonder if this is something that kind of culturally we have this idea of instant everything You know, whether it be microwave meals, or instant fame, or this idea of, you know, lose seven pounds in seven days type, you know in the diet industry And actually for stuff to have meaning, and to be sustainable, and the types of work that I think that a lot of the entrepreneurs that we work with, heart-centred entrepreneurs; coaches; healers; they want to have a legacy; they want to have a body of work; they want to have something that isn't just going to be a flash in the pan. You know, that isn't going to be launching the latest novelty thing that will have burnt itself out in the next six months; they are in it for longevity, and so it is going to be, you are going to need to put down some roots as you are doing that, in order to have that... Holly: Mmm yeah, yeah. And you, it does require so much growth; not just personal growth; but, also, just learning the practical stuff as well. And now that I am, this is kind of my second business, now that I am in this world of online business and coaching and all that, I am surrounded by a ton of people who are into the personal growth thing, and I have the support, and the skills and the knowledge to do that. But, in my first business, which was a standard book and order business, which we marketed online so it was kind of like both, solid and online, it was so hard for me Page -4-

5 because I didn't acknowledge kind of the personal growth side of things that I was going through; and also, the practical knowledge learning stuff. And I just, I just felt so lost and I remember having this conversation with one of our guests, because this was an Eco-hotel and he had a business back in the States, it was a bar or something. And I said to him: do you ever feel like you know what you are doing? And he said no, I don t. and I was like oh my god, thank God! Like, I had never had that conversation with anyone, but I was learning so much, and I was growing so much, that I just felt: my god it must be me that I don't know what I am doing. And he was like: No, that's just a normal part of having a business. Like, you are always growing, so you are always doing new stuff. You always feel like you never know what you are doing. And I was like: Oh thank God! And I think more people need to understand that, because you are in that constant state of growth; that constant state of expansion; you may always feel like you never know what you are doing, because you are always expanding. Yeah; there are certainly It is like this never-ending onion, you kind of think I can think back and I can remember (I was saying this to a client the other day and she was killing herself laughing) because she asked me a similar thing, and I said: well, I no longer cry every time I have to send out a newsletter! Because that's what I used to do! The whole idea of first of all, the technology, getting my head round I was on MailChimp at the time, and trying to get it to look the way that I wanted it to; I used to find that so stressful and exhausting. And, then, there was something about the whole idea of putting something out there into the world, even though I had seven people on my list at the time - but, psychologically that was so weighty on me. So, now, I have many more people than seven on my list.. Holly: [laughing] Holly: Yeah. Not as big as some people - size doesn't always matter, but I have a sizeable list now, and occasionally that sameness comes up almost like an old memory, but I no longer kind of sob while I am doing that. But then, I talked on the last episode about how I cried so much over doing my new website, and that same thing about putting my message out there, and energetically, it felt so vulnerable to do that. So, you know, newsletters now, they don't bother me, that's kind of solid ground but there are new levels of messiness and uncertainty and growth. And when you have, when you are stretching so you are exercising, you have had a really good workout, and you have exercised new muscles, and the next day you really ache. I also think, no-one tells you that kind of ricochet, the backlash, the ache that you will have after the growth period. I mean it is beautiful and it is amazing and it is deep work and it is important; but it's um, yeah it can take it out of you sometimes; and if you are not prepared for it, I also think that we add an extra level of self-recrimination on there. And like, while everyone else seems to be able to do this, so I would kind of sit there and go well no one else is having a problem sending a bloody out, just get on it you know? Whereas I can promise you everyone else is struggling with something. Holly: Exactly, and I am sure when you were crying with your MailChimp list, before you sent out an you probably at one point thought: I must be the only person who cries before sending out a newsletter? Oh yeah! Holly: When in reality I'm sure, there are plenty of other people who go through that; but, if we are not having these conversations in a public way, it can be so isolating for other Page -5-

6 people who are struggling. I mean, I was just thinking this morning, for the longest time, this is kind of a big thing for me to be saying, because I don't think I have ever talked about this before, every time I would be on Skype, and it would kind of be the minutes before I was getting ready for a client call, I would think: oh god I hope they don't show up. Ahh I had that too! Holly: 'I hope they have an emergency, I hope they get stuck in traffic, I hope they need to oh God I hope they don't show up, I hope they need to reschedule Can we just like postpone this a week? Because, the thought going through my mind was: What if I can't help them? And: what if I disappoint them? And: what if I am not as good as they think I am going to be?, could we just postpone this appointment one week maybe? Holly: Yep. Holly: Yep! Holly: Yeah] I am getting the chills as I tell this, and I think that's why it is really important for me to say this, because it was like a real fear I would have, on the one hand I knew my clients were getting great results from working with me; I knew that it was going to be amazing and transformational; but on the other side of me, the small side of me was going: Please can we just postpone the disappointment like a few more days.. please let her not show up for the call. Ahh I can relate, I think we have all had that feeling of kind of: I'm not good enough, I'm not ready. I was talking to Tanya Geisler last week, she is someone who has been on my podcast before, and she has come back for another episode which actually will probably have gone out before this one airs And, Tanya talks about her kind of thing is: step into your starring role. And talks a lot about the imposter complex. And it very much that feeling of I am not ready yet I am not good enough Any minute now, someone will notice that I don't actually know what I am doing. And one of the things that she said, the very first time that I spoke to her, that I have held onto like a talisman ever since, she said that those feelings, those emotions, are actually a sign of high performance, and high integrity. So, if you care about what you are doing, then that's when those feelings come up. If you didn't care about it then you wouldn't be worrying about it. So, actually, it is kind of a good sign, even though that's the downside of being high performing; of being full of integrity; of wanting to do a good job; is that, if you didn't care that your clients were going to get a good result from you and a good session, then you would have just been like filing your nails and you know not bothered at all. And I took a lot of comfort from that, because it made me think: not only is there not something wrong with me for feeling these things actually, maybe, it's a good sign. Holly: Yeah, yeah. And if it's a good sign, all I have to do is, learn to manage myself through those periods, and through when those thoughts come up. Holly: Mmm so, I think this is a perfect lead into how can people deal with this messy middle, how can people get comfortable with that? How do you handle it? What are some things you can do to not only realise you re in it, but manage it better so it is not as painful and uncomfortable? Page -6-

7 I think the first thing is to have some community around you. Entrepreneur isolation is a thing, and it is not a good thing. I think we, especially I many of the online communities that we have, because so many of us work online, you know, it is great to have Facebook groups, that you can go into it. But, how many communities can you go into and say: I feel like the biggest failure in the world. Most people are showing up in there, either trying to be professional, or you know, not show their darker squidgiest most vulnerable sides of themselves and so I think it is vital that we have communities where we can go and we can say: I don't think I am cut out for this, and I think I should quit my business, and I feel like a big failure. And so, being able to cultivate those communities and finding people that you can say that to, even if it is just one other entrepreneur that you can message and just say: I am having a burn it down day. Holly: [laughing] Holly: yeah! My friend Sherry Guyse has calls them the burn it down days. It is the days when you think I am not cut out for this, I think I need to go and do something else I think I was crazy to think that I could be an entrepreneur... I think that everyone who said this wouldn t work was probably right I am not even going to think about how much money I have spent It is one those days that you are having, and so Sherry calls it the burn it down days. And, so, I think recognising the burn it down days are normal and that everyone will have them. And find other people, safe spaces, that you can go and you can say: I am having a burn it down day, I need you to talk me down off the ledge. Holly: [Laughing] Whether that be entrepreneurial friends that you know well enough and you trust well enough that you can gave that kind of relationship with, or whether it is through something like a mastermind. So, one of the things that I was very deliberate on when I put together my Supernova collective, was that a part of the programme, built into the programme is this supportive community. We are consciously cultivating a supportive community where we show up for each other. Where it is okay we show time kind of setting out what's our community guidelines, how are we going to show up in this group? how are we going to support one another? what's it okay to do, what's it not okay to do? what do you want us to do when you are having a bad day?. We spend some time consciously doing that, and the level of vulnerability and courage and support, that these women are showing to each other, is just fabulous, it is just really, really, heart-warming, but you know, so, maybe there is a mastermind that you, kind of, buy into or maybe you want to set up something yourself? Find some entrepreneurs that you get on with, that you have that connection with and say, do you know I want us to create a space where I am not just sharing strategy, I am not just sharing wins, we actually have some space to go: I feel crap today. Cos I think they are just as important, as being able to share the wins. Holly: Yep, yep, I agree. It's about as you ve said creating a group on the terms that you need. So, I know I have mentioned on our co-hosted shows before that I've really resisted a mastermind, because I feel like my business works better when I pay attention to my intuition and my gut feeling, rather than following the standard marketing advice and that kind of thing. So, I really resisted joining a mastermind or forming a group of women because I didn't want other people's advice, but I recently Page -7-

8 formed a group that my friends and I call it the master gut [laughing] which sounds horrible [laughing] Holly: But, it is all about us being able to follow our gut feeling, so like keeping us on track with our gut and our intuition. And that's it has been amazing, we have been doing it for like two or three weeks now, and it has been so helpful and supportive. So, figure out what you want and what you don't want from the group, and then find the people that will get that. I think that's a really important thing because I have resisted it for so long and now I have realised my problems just I thought it had to be one way but it could be anyway I want. I would like to have a master gut! Both: [laughing] Holly: When I sent out the to them I was like: it is like a master gut. That's like a horrible name, but that's what it is. And, it stuck, so it's the master gut. [Laughing] I really like that! Holly: Thank you! In terms of do you use mantras? I know you specialise in energy work? Are there any particular techniques that you use with yourself? Or with clients in this area? Holly: Well these day I am using Heart-Centred Energy Work, both with myself and with clients, but I think as with any kind of mindset work you really need to find what's the technique that works for you, and what's right for you to shift this stuff because I have tried so many different things and a lot of it didn't work, as it wasn't right for me. Whatever you do I think it is really important to address this stuff at the subconscious level and at the energetic level. So, shifting subconscious beliefs, shifting energy blocks, and working at those deeper levels, rather than just working at the conscious level because so many times our subconscious briefs will cause us to sabotage ourselves and if your subconscious is aligned with your goals and your vision; if your energy system is aligned with your goals and your vision; it just makes everything so much easier. Holly: yes. Are there other specific things that people could do? Is there any work kind of exploring what kind of the internal and the external or the Do you know what I mean? So, I am thinking of techniques that I have used in the past, and I know that your methodology is slightly different that kind of digging into: What's the fear that I have around there, the thing that my head is telling me that I want to do... but then digging deeper what's the thing that actually my gut is telling me to do; but my fear is telling me not to do? You know, where's the resistance coming up? Holly: Yeah, well I think it is about really exploring first of all: what's your vision; what do you want to achieve with your business, who do you need to be to achieve that? What might get in the way? So, when you really dial up your vision and you think When I am stepping up into my greatness and I am doing these amazing things, what's the stuff that's going to get in the way? What is the little voice that pops up and says: you know that you are not good enough to do that who do you think you are? Like, other people can do that stuff, that's just not for you. So, paying attention to that little voice and rather than crushing it, and stepping on it, and brushing it under the rug; write it down, journal on it. Figure out what that crappy Page -8-

9 little voice is saying to you so you can release it by doing the work to shift that stuff. Another thing that has been really, really, useful for me, my friend Cara Wilde has this free guided meditation download thing, called the New Identity Masterclass. And it is all about who do you need to be; what's the new identity you need in order to really step up in a bigger way and do the stuff that you want to do; and stuff that you want to achieve. And I have listened to this thing four times in probably the last six months; because, I have been in such a state of rapid growth, that every time I feel like I am in the messy middle, I am like: Agh I just feel icky, things are weird Then, I get out that recording, I listen to it, and I take a full page of notes on the stuff I need to do, on the concrete stuff I need to do in order to step up into this new identity that is going to help me achieve the stuff that I want to achieve. Ahh that's so... I have done some identity work in the past, and it is really, really powerful; can you link to that? Holly: Yeah; I will definitely add that to the show notes, it is so damn good, I have used it like I said four times and I will continue to use it because it is so clear. Yeah; yeah. Even that question: who do I need to be to take this next step? It is so powerful, yeah. Holly: I think one of the first steps is becoming aware of the fact that you are in the messy middle; so you think that, if things feel icky, if things feel not quite right, if you feel if you are taking two steps forward and one step back; you have got the peaks but you have also got the lows. I think those are all signs that you are in the messy middle and you can take action to you know get out of there and move forward, but also, just realise, that the fact that you are in the messy middle means that you have already taken steps and you already on the path. Holly: Yes! That's true. One of the things that I remember reading a while ago, and I use it time and time again, is around esteem and how we can esteem ourselves and esteem each other. And one of the things that this piece of research had discovered is that people who have low levels of self-esteem, whether it be around learning or around opportunities in life and things, almost saw themselves at the bottom of a hill and everything that they still had to do was, you know, going up that hill. And what people who had healthy levels of self-esteem were able to do, is recognise that they were in the middle of the hill. They still had lots of things that they needed to do going up, but they were also able to look down and look back at all the things they had already done. Holly: Yes, and that is so important because it is so easy to tell ourselves: I have so far to go, I have so much to do, I am never going to get to the top. But, we never stop, well, often we don't stop and turn around and say: okay, I have a ton of shit to do, but look how far I have come and look how much I have done. Yeah, yeah! Holly: It s so important. It s just a perspective, it's just a the shift of just turn around and see what you've already done. Holly: No! And I think also ultimately recognise that you have a choice; you are in the messy middle where you are kind of thinking: I don't want to do this anymore, I can't do this anymore. Page -9-

10 You don't have to! You don't have to carry on with this path, you can take some time out if you want to, you can decide that it's not for you; or, you can pick yourself up and carry on. And I think sometimes it does come down to remind yourself that: I have a choice in this and I don't have to keep torturing myself here, I can pick myself up and I can think okay, how can I can this better? And sometimes you need a bit of a sit down and a bit of a wallow and a bit of a this is really hard and eat some chocolate and have a hot bath and then start again tomorrow, because, you know if you want to be in it for the long haul I think that being able to handle the messy middle is of those key skills that you need to have. It is almost like resiliency skill that we need as entrepreneurs... Holly: Yes! And I think that word is so important; and I remember that you used to talk about resilience a LOT. That's kind of your... Yeah! That's how I you know, my first coaching business was all around resiliency and I am still kind of obsessed with how can we be more resilient? And I think that having a balance actually that is a really good point, having a balance and having some perspective. So, I think that one of the things that can happen when you are in the messy middle is that you get tunnel vision about it; and so your business: what is going right, what is going wrong, becomes everything that you can see. And actually you need to get some perspective, and sometimes the best way forward is to take a step out for a little bit. Go and do something else, go and have a break. Because our brains don't work well on stress, our creativity certainly doesn't work well on stress; and so, if you find yourself getting into this kind of thought loop of: I should be able to do better than this, I feel really crappy, there is something wrong with me, why can't I do this? Then actually, no good thoughts are going to come from that place Holly: Exactly! No great solutions are going to come from that place! So, go and do something different, give yourself permission, it is almost like a prescription. When you are in that zone, you need to shift your brain state, and to go and do something else. Holly: Because otherwise you end up on the road to burnout, which is not going to serve you at all. No, no! So, kind of, get outside in nature, I would I know some people are big fans of sitting down and just getting cosy and just you know, going doing a Netflix boxset or something. Just go and do something different, go and get some exercise, go and make yourself something delicious to eat, go spend some time with some normal people offline; remind yourself of why you are doing all of this. Holly: Yes, yes; and remind yourself that, as you said before, that it is a choice. You are choosing to be an entrepreneur; you are choosing to run a business; you could also choose to go back and find a job; but if you are going to stay on this path, it is because you choose to do so, no-one is forcing you. Absolutely, and not because of any of the things that you are telling yourself of: noone will hire me anyway, I have no choice. You do, you have a choice. You have lots more choices than you are able to see right at that moment, and that's why it is important to kind of change your state around stuff sometimes, and just kind of get a shift in perspective. Because, yeah, you are going to have to get used to the messy middle, you will always be in the messy middle, in some area of your business. It is just part of it I'm afraid. That was a good episode, I think we Holly: I think so! I think we solved that [laughing] I think we have resolved that for everyone [laughing]. Page -10-

11 Holly: Excellent, excellent If you disagree, leave us a comment. [laughing] I am joking of course! Holly: No, but I think that we are just having this conversation in a public way, is so, so important, because we really have to acknowledge this And remind people that it is okay and It is something that you can do something about, it is totally normal. It is totally normal, and all the people that are in your Facebook feeds, that look like they have it all together and are never having bad days, they are having bad days, because otherwise they are not human beings. Daniele La Porte, you know, whoever it is that is your particular go-to person online that you think: they have it all together, I want their business, I want to be them when I grow up, they are experiencing these days too. Just because nobody is Instagram-ing about it, doesn't mean that it is not happening. Holly: Yeah; very good point. Excellent, thank you for having this conversation. [laughing] Holly, where can people get hold of you? What have you got going on at the moment? Holly: People can find me at: and what have I got going on at the moment? I have got my. You have recently opened up some slots for Holly: Yes, but by the time this goes live I do have open slots for my Heart Centred Energy Work, so, if people are interested in doing that work at the deeper level, the subconscious level, the energetic level, and releasing their blocks and releasing their stuff: you can find out more about my Heart Centred Energy Work. And I can I have had some and I can heartily recommend it. Holly: Thank you! Holly: Yay! Yeah, so, the work that Holly does goes kind of very deep, but in a very lovely way. And, so, if you are curious about how you can use some of it that gut-feeling energy.. Holly: [laughing] That energetic connection then Holly is your girl for that. You can find out about me at and I have a couple of things going on at the moment: I'm currently, about to open the doors, just having some pre-launch chats for the next round of the SuperNova collective. Which is all about kind of, gathering a community of women to help you come together and help you overcome entrepreneur isolation. Start getting those key pieces of kind of those building block pieces of your business in place, being able to stop all of the noise, and the bright shiny objects and really know what it is that you need to focus on, so you can unsubscribe from a load of things, you can stop signing up for every webinar that you see advertised, you don't have to keep downloading the latest ebooks. So that you can focus on what the next steps are for your business, and you get to do it in a community. And then I also have my one-on-one coaching which is Partner In Crime, again for people who are looking to get those foundational pieces to build a business with substance, without having to resort to the dark arts, or the sleazy marketing techniques... Holly: Excellent! Page -11-

12 Holly, thank you so much! It is always good fun, but also, I think, kind of nourishing conversation whenever we come together and talk about this. And also if you have any topics or subjects that you would like us to dive into on a future podcast, just drop us a line: jo@jocasey.com or Holly: holly@hollyworton.com. And we will speak to you soon, thanks so much for listening. Holly: Thanks again for listening and remember to visit hollyworton.com/198 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you. Page -12-