Autodesk University AutoCAD Plant 3D Ask the Experts

Transcription

1 Autodesk University AutoCAD Plant 3D Ask the Experts Good afternoon. I have 3 o'clock. Are you guys doing all right? How many have been to AU one time? Is this your first time? Second time, third time, fourth time, fifth time, sixth time? I don't even remember how many times I've come. Good. I've met, I think, three new people this morning on the way to breakfast. So I hope you guys are taking advantage of all the classes. It's a lot of fun. There's a lot of stuff to get into your head. And I know sometimes it's overwhelming. But good. I hope you guys are taking advantage of it. This is Jason Drew. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Jason, do you want to give a little spiel about yourself. Yes. I've worked in product support team, enterprise support with Autodesk. Started there back in October 2011, starting on the front line team, basically, working with a lot of different customers. Moved over in 2012 to the enterprise support group. So work with a lot of larger accounts, bigger companies. I started out with mainly IT support and then shifted over to using intergraph smart Plant P&ID, doing P&ID design and P&ID administration. And then finally, got over into the Autodesk products. That was around So I've been using the AutoCAD Plant 3D and P&ID since the first releases, probably when [INAUDIBLE] started. And it's just still doing that today. I am David Wolfe. I started using CAD Works in an engineering firm. Where am I and where's the speaker? Somewhere. So I started using CAD Works, then I switched to working for a reseller, ECAD, and we changed over to using Plant 3D about five years ago, I think. Four or five years ago. And we've been working with that, written some documentation for Autodesk about figuring isometrics and setting up projects. And then, we have a blog, pdoteam.com, and I am on the forums a lot, so trying to help people and make sure we all figure out ways to get stuff done that we need to.

2 So what we are going to do this afternoon is I'm going to go through, give a brief overview of things that we picked up in Every year I find something new about Plant that is just really exciting to me. Hopefully, it'll be exciting to you guys. If not just fall asleep and then I'll know who's bored by what I'm talking about. But we'll go through some of those things and then we're going take a look at troubleshooting issues. It's really helpful for me to be able to categorize what type of issue I'm having. It's also helpful for people, when you're getting support, to know what files to give to them. So we're going to go through some of those topics real quick and then open it up for question and answer time. So nothing's off the table as far as questions that you ask. However, we have no idea what the product is going to look like next year. So obviously, we can't tell you this feature will be in it or will not be in it. We can't make any promises. I could say 2018 is best release that you're ever going to see, you need to buy it right away. But obviously, we'll have to wait to see it before we say that. And even though I work for Autodesk, it's a publicly traded company so there's things that I can't really say legally. But we cover what we can. Yeah. So let's go ahead and get started. Hear from top troubleshooters on common issues. So when I think of top troubleshooter, I'm basically the guy that hits his head against the wall more times than anyone. So I'm just really stubborn about trying to figure things out. So there's no real glory there. So we're going to look at some of the top tips, discover common solutions, ask your questions, and guidelines. We went through the introduction. I have a tendency to say all the things and then realize where I am in my speech so that's why I'm going through all the slides right now. So there's introduction. So that's who we are, ECAD, Inc. video team. Some quick tips on where you can go for help. So the forums, there's a lot of people on the forums. I'm a big fan of getting help. You talk to me, you talk to Jason Drew, you get one idea. You talk to someone else, you get another idea. So come together we can all get a lot of good ideas about how we're solving our problems.

3 And then, if you download the PowerPoint, there's going to be the links in there, so go back-- Did you guys know that all this information is online? Raise your hand if you did. OK. So all the class materials are online for all the classes. So go back, throughout the year, and see classes that you missed. But the links will be here. So there's a PDF that we put together with the top questions and solutions from Autodesk. It's really comprehensive, going from P&ID through modeling and setting up your project structures in isometrics. Then there's also de-mystifying AutoCAD isometrics, which is more of a deep dive just into isometrics and some of the XML stuff that you get into. So top tips. First of all, automatice line list report. So one of the hurdles that we have had for a long time is finding a way to generate what we pipers would consider a line list. Most of the time we use a product it gives us a list of all the line segments, or something like that. Well, that's not really a true line list, if you know what I mean. So let me go ahead and let's do this. So let's get into a line list. Let me go ahead and start Report Creator. How many of you are familiar with the Report Creator? If you're not you need to spend more time in the Report Creator. It is one of my favorite aspects of Plant 3D because it is extremely flexible and you can do a lot of really fun stuff. And I just get really geeky about Report Creator stuff. So please, I apologize. So I'm going to go to the report layout so we can take a look at what's happening behind the scenes. So the big hurdle is we have two classes one is the line groups class. And then that captures and stores all the information for the line segments that are related to the line groups. So it's really important that you get your tagging and things figured out for this. And we talk about that a little bit later. But what this Report Creator, this particular report format lets us do is it takes all of those line segment information, it takes the equipment from and equipment to information, and applies it at the line group level so that you can get just a list of the line groups. But you also get the relevant equipment from and equipment to information. So to demonstrate that I'll show you the preview of it while I cross my fingers. And there's a blog article-- and this happens every time, by the way, so you just hit Cancel and keep going. There's a blog article that covers this in depth. It gives you, right here, you have the automatic P&ID line list download. So you can download

4 that. And it's basically the report configuration that I'm showing you. And then there's some steps you do to configure a project. It goes through all the steps, shows you some option, and it goes through the basic stuff you do. So the deal is, I wanted to make a report. Because we do set up for a lot of clients, I want to be able to make one report that I could try to work for all of our clients. So it has to be really flexible. So I'm using parameters. Like here, we use some parameters and say, I can determine the order that the line tag appears just by putting in the column names here. So there's some really cool things that you can do. And let's switch over. So the highlight is you have your line tag format. Like here's the from information that's combined, tk 1 and tk 1,003 and 1,004. So there's something you wouldn't get out of the normal line list report. So it combines that force. And then also, if you look at the bottom right, you have the combination of the drawings that are related to that line group. So 1,001, 1a1 1,001 and 1a1 1,002. So things that-- You can get that information for free. It's in the database. it's just not in a good format for our Report Creator to use it unless you do some behind the scenes coding, which is what took place there. And if you really want to geek about-- So there's a Scripts button, and you can use C#. And so, what I did in the background is wrote some scripts to save all that information and process it together. So there is that. The next thing. So that's a free download, you can go to that. Next thing is a fabrication bill of material. So this is obviously going to be dependent on who you are and what you do. But some clients need to be able to generate a bill of material that doesn't group the items together. And one of the awesome things about AutoCAD isometrics is you have so much control over the grouping. And let's go ahead and go back. So here's the itemized bill of material. So basically what we do is we created a database ID that shows up that we can use in isometrics. And we add it to the iso output. And then in the iso XML we have the aggregated list. The aggregated list is just a way to say this is your bill of material. This is how we're combining everything together to know when we need to get unique rows.

5 So we add the database ID so that we know that everything in the model has a unique ID. So then we say, if we group on that then we will get a unique row for each thing in our project. So I did that for all the items. And then you can scroll down and you get one row for every single item. Now obviously, if you look at the quantity row, one, it's kind of redundant but it works. And you get the output you need. Can you subtract the shop material from the field material? The question is, can you subtract the shop material from the field material? I don't know of a way to do that because when you display the shop and field items it totals them in separate lists. So there's no-- [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. So they basically, each list checks a different property and then filters based on that property. There's no comparison between the two. Good question. [INAUDIBLE] can you export [INAUDIBLE] material, shop materials listed [INAUDIBLE] Yes. You can do it separately. Is that global material pretty much out of the box or do you have to test the lines that you get back [INAUDIBLE] export? This? This is customized. But that's what this article is showing, that you can do it and the steps to do it. And the only reason I that bring it up is because you can do so much with the bill of materials. I'm not going to say you can do anything you want to but you can come really close. So there's a lot of power there. The next thing, dynamic nozzles for equipment. So this is-- I'd better hurry, huh? So one of the other issues you have with equipment is that, for example, you can control the projection of the nozzle off the head because it is hard-coded on a bent nozzle. Last year or the previous year we discovered that if you put the word "custom" in the component designation property you can basically have in your properties list any-- let me see if I can hit this hyperlink. So here's the illustration of the example. You pick your bent nozzle, and we want to be able to control the projection of the nozzle off the tank. So this is basically driven by being able to set the custom, the word "custom" in the component designation property in the catalog.

6 Once you do that you can control all of the dimensional information and make it just like a custom part. That's from the piping component. So in this blog post we provided-- I'm pretty sure I put the download in there. Yup. So I updated the entire nozzle catalog so that the word "custom" is on all the nozzles. And so you can download this, replace your current one, and then you can have custom nozzle of any projection and length. And works for parts too. It works for parts, it works for everything. We had a client ask the question, again, about doing it. I was like, let me look again. It had been a while since I'd looked at it, and tried it, and-- [INTERPOSING VOICES] [INAUDIBLE] the setting, there you go. Yeah, I was really excited. So that's available, again, for download. And then, last thing is, we have a plugin, also called Fasttrack Plant. I'll just touch on this real quick. If you'd like a demo we also have more information in the store on our website about it. But it has a bunch of little features we put in to just kind of make life easier. One of them is moving attributes. So by default, let me double-click to get model space. So by default these attributes are linked. It's really annoying because you have to create multiple invitations to move them around. So we made this OrientAttributes command, and I can do move, pick my attribute, and move it around. So that saves-- just little things like that that save some time. We also did a spec-driven extension. So for example, I can come in here and tell my valve what kind of valve I want to have. And it looks at my 3D spec. And then, you can tell it to control and show the end types or not. You can also check to see which valves are out of spec. So let's see. So for example, if I turn on Show out of spec valves, those vowels get flagged because they're not the right end type. And it looks back at my piping specs to see that. And then, you can also tell it to show end types or not. One of the other features we have on the modeling side is a line list palette, just to make it

7 easier to find and isolate lines. So I can come over here to Fasttrack 3D, pull my line group viewer. And let me close this. So this looks at all the lines in the model. And I can come in here, I can filter. If I wanted to filter I can type in here, or I can come in here and do Isolate. And then you have options for how you want to isolate. And instead of trying to find it and browse to it you can go to Zoom. And you can also select from the palette. So these are just usability things. It just makes it easier when you're trying to find lines and select lines you have to go find the first component, find the last component, and select. The retain ISO information, a lot of times, if you're trying to isolate a line you turn the layers off. You also just turned off the ISO information. So we can leave that on based on the line number that it's associated with, and you can still see it. This also has the related models. So one of the other issues we run into is, let's say, you were running a line, 1,010, and you're running it model two. And then you go over to model 3 and you keep running the line 1,010. Then you go start a new line but you forget to change your line number. Well in that case, you go to run the ISO, you have two different lines because you ran it in two different places but you don't know where it is. So what this does is it groups the line numbers by the drawing they're associated with so that you can see what line goes through which models. And so you just do this and then refresh the tree. And you didn't see that. [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] Yeah, this is a beta test for [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] So, troubleshooting. [INAUDIBLE] Do what? Get to send a report? They're tired of hearing my reports. So line numbering. Real quick, before we get into other topics. Line numbering is probably one of the things we see wrong most often. The issue is partly because of our nomenclature. When we talk about a line number we're talking about a line from pump to tank. But we're also talking about the unique numeric value that is part of our line numbering system. So because we confuse terms a little bit it's easy to get mixed up with what's going on.

8 So when we set up tags for a line numbering system we need to think of these in two ways. One of them is first of all, the line group tag. And I keep running back and you just stand here and talk. So when we're talking line group tagging, there are two ways that we typically see like groups tagged. You have your line number value or you have your service and your line number. There's a few exceptions to that, but like 90% of that you see service and line number or your line number. But what happens is, when we go see clients, or whatever like that, we'll walk in and see, look at their project set up, a lot of times you see in the line group tagging, they'll put the size, the service, the line number and the spec. That's incorrect because it gives you multiple values, multiple unique values because it includes the size. So you could have two-inch p 1,001. You could also have three-inch p 1,001. Well, your we data is wrong now because you have two different groups but they're both 1,001. So that's one thing you want to make sure you get right. And if you go through the tailoring AutoCAD P&ID Plant 3D it kind of explains that in a deeper sense. The other thing you want to make sure you do is you get your tagging set up first. Don't change your tag format through the middle of a project mainly because, then you're going back and you're re-tagging everything manually. And that's a big pain. I'm just trying to save you a headache. So don't do that. Along with the tagging, the way you need to understand how you display the tags. So the first way you display the tags in P&ID is you're using annotations on line segments. So that's where you put your size service-line numbering set up. It's on the annotation it's not in the line group tag. The second way you do it, on the 3D model or on the orthos and on the isos, you would want to use calculated properties. And we have a blog post on that, setting that up. So those are just two, or I guess, three big tips to help you get started without-- Make sure you research these issues or check yourselves on your project set up before you go through these. When you're done about troubleshooting we're looking at isolating the scope of issues. You're trying to figure out where your problems are occurring. And these are really general. So you have your P&ID scope. And these are all in the handouts and documentation so I'll just

9 go through them real quick. So if you're looking at your P&ID symbol issues you're going to try and figure out if it's in a drawing file, if it was in your project folder content, or the template, or your tool palettes. Tool palettes basically just hold a reference to the name of the Symbol Style, so there's not really too many issues except in the configuration process. Tool palettes, which is AutoCAD. The templates in your drawings are really the only other places that you're going to have issues. 3D modeling, your issues are going to fall into a few categories. Your drawing your models, your project folder content, your piping specs and catalogs. So that's where you want to kind of break down where you're modeling issues are coming from, if they're coming from your specs, if they're coming from some project settings for the current model. Isometrics. Oops, too fast. So there's a little more. These are a little bit harder to get into because you can have issues from your 3D model and your line, if you don't have property set correctly, like symbol keys or types, those could be wrong. You could have your isometric DWG holds information about the items that get placed in the model. Your ISO style can need tweaking, and things like that. And then, orthos are a little simpler. You basically have your project styles, and then your 3D models and your ortho templates. Then the database. How many of you like databases? Really? Come on guys. Can we please be more geeky? So I don't know, I guess I started liking databases-- The first time you [INAUDIBLE] --after-- no, no, no-- after I spent three weeks doing a manual takeoff on P&IDs. From that point on, I was like, there's got to be a better way to do this. And then I started learning about databases. And then it became much clearer about why I need a database and what the importance is. So there's a lot of stuff going on in the database. Tagging is something that we can look at. Information that maybe duplicate information is where we look in the database, and things like that.

10 Project folders. So if you're having trouble with your project, your settings are going to be stored in project folder content. If you're having trouble with your isos, pretty much anything that you're going to see is going to be in your isometrics folder. So if you have a problem with your P&IDs you can pretty much just send us a project folder and the P&ID folder. You don't need to send us the isometrics folder, you don't needs to send us an inspections folder. If you are having trouble with your isos we need a sample model, your iso styles, and maybe, if you've customized your symbol keys, maybe your isometrics folder. But that's just some overview things. So let's go ahead and get in Q&A. Who's got a question? In the back. On orthos, bolt quantities. It comes out there's a second quantity instead of each bolt, But it does not come out that way [INAUDIBLE]. Are you changing all the Report Creators? And the isometrics will come up as individual bolts, but I cannot find a way to make the orthos come up as individual bolts. I agree. [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] you're going to fix it. Not that I know of. We have very little control over ortho, the way it makes a bill of material. So you're generating isos and you're putting bill of materials on your orthos? Generally no. If we have a small project then we will send out just an ortho. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Small. And then we mainly have corner [INAUDIBLE]. If you don't do iso then it will be a project bill of materials. So you're [INAUDIBLE] I usually-- So honestly, the way I prefer to do it is, especially for the small projects, I'll do a bill of material through the Report Creator, export to Excel, and then link the table to the AutoCAD file, and bring it in a link to AutoCAD table, and then you don't have to worry about it. But then your annotations--

11 Yeah, yeah. Well, I also did a plugin to fix that. That's kind or, yeah. So there's not there's not a good way around it. Yes? [INAUDIBLE] No. But we do write plugins for people. You just run an iso and draft a bill of material on the iso and piece it on the ortho. [INAUDIBLE] Or you still have the issue of the annotation-- you still have the annotation issue. I'll stick with orthos. How do you show insulation on an orthographic view? I had that question a few weeks ago. I couldn't get it to turn on and shut off. The installations were like, it goes outside the pipe, it's just sort of graphical. I don't think it's really physical. And I don't think they've ever really implemented that to show it in there. So it would have to be something new they would have to put into the product, unless Dave wrote something that makes it shut off. Can we just place a 2D model-- I'm sorry. Can we just place a 2D model [INAUDIBLE] I just don't understand why it doesn't show it as an important part of the process. Point insulation display doesn't work. Pretty sure I turned that all the way up. Then I ran ortho again, it didn't really drop it into a layer. We've also tested going out to NWC files. If we can get it in there, but the ortho doesn't seem to pick it up. So it's been logged with the Plant team. That reminds me, I was going to do a-- [INAUDIBLE] So first we have bolts in ortho [INAUDIBLE] Then you have insulation on orthos. Was it the quantities on the bolts, is that right? Yeah, the quantities. [INAUDIBLE] grouping of the quantities. [INAUDIBLE] but on the isos it groups it. [INTERPOSING VOICES]

12 Have you thought about putting-- have you thought about putting-- no, never mind. Dumb idea. Do you place a annotation, place the insulation as an annotation so it calls out the insulation thickness on ortho? Do you? [INAUDIBLE] The insulation there on the specs Part of the issue is people show insulation different ways. Very few people want it all over their drawings. You want to be able to turn it on and off. Good question. Next question? Yes. Could you walk through [INAUDIBLE] how to make the transition from full SQL to [INAUDIBLE] Well, you don't start easy do you? There's a whole paper for that, a whole white paper. It's not that difficult. Let me see, how to transition from-- So, are you talking about transitioning a single project, or just starting a project from scratch with SQL Server, or like the business workflow, or what are you looking for? [INAUDIBLE] trying to keep a master project going. And then, every time we add additional custom parts or additional specs, you can look back, always taking that [INAUDIBLE] back into this master project where we're trying to create our projects from this master project template. And when we do decide to go to full SQL, is there a way to make sure we get all that information captured and move to full SQL Server so we don't have to go back? It's virtually-- you don't really do anything different other than when you're creating your product you just choose SQL Server. The paths stay the same. You still-- how many of you use a network path for storing your specs? You don't use a project [INAUDIBLE] We want to start doing that. We're actually on Vault. We're a little taking our time. It works sort of the same way in Vault except for the fact that you can't use network path specs. All the specs involved are relative to your project.

13 And in 2017 they've put it in there , it's now in project manager. It helped a little bit going to that. But I guess, first step is get it over SQL Servers. So you got to spin up SQL Server, migrate SQLite over to the SQL Server. And then that's going to be your master template project from that point out. And like you said, you could just pick that from the project setup wizard and-- I mean, any new project you can create, you can either create those on SQL Server or not, or SQLite, you can go either way. You're picking a template, right? I mean, I usually keep my templates in SQLite and just create the new projects in SQL Server because you don't really need the database structure at all. Can you use a Vault? Vault's a different animal. So it's kind of a larger discussion than we can do in this class. Is there consent of the [INAUDIBLE] data? Is there [INAUDIBLE] of the data? [INAUDIBLE] data that [INAUDIBLE] the server. What [INAUDIBLE] What version of Vault are we using? Apparently [INAUDIBLE] So you definitely want to be on the later releases. So when you're using Vault-- I'm actually running [INAUDIBLE] completely because I'm not able to use 2014 Vault [INAUDIBLE] So I'm not running anything but Vault besides PDFs that convert [INAUDIBLE] eventually are able to use 2017 Vault after that. So you can create a project template that resides in Vault so that you have template folders with the Vault access permissions and all that other stuff, which you have to do that separately, obviously, from your template on your network. But the process is still the same. You go start a new project, go through the wizard, just say it's with Vault, and then it's going to store the template up there. So there's not really a lot of behind the scenes configuration as far as the database goes, for saying this links to here or whatever. The only time you get into issues, really, is if you change database names, where are you trying to move a project from SQLite to SQL Server. And then

14 there's the utility you need to use. But again, it is still not complex. You just have to know where to go. I'm pretty sure there's white papers on migrating from SQLite-- Yeah. There's a whole white paper on the whole process of setting up a new SQL Server with SQL Server Express, which is free. And you can load it on there and then it tells you how to go and use the utility to migrate it up. It helps to have a database admin in-house. But if you don't, you can bring somebody in to help you go through that and make sure everything's transferred properly from SQLite and is in there. [INAUDIBLE] its own server? Well, yeah. Usually you would have a dedicated SQL Server. AutoCAD Plant 3D? Yeah. You could run it on-- [INAUDIBLE] could Vault? And that's going to have a SQL Server on it too. So you can put projects in there. I've seen people do that. It's not like it's going to work. The issue is how many people are you throwing at it? SQL Server is really robust, thousands of people can use a SQL Server. Microsoft sets this up to run huge things. The issue is, from an IT perspective, they're going to say, best practice is always to separate the two because then you're not sharing resources between two different products. So that's why we'd would say separate SQL Servers. So separate Vault, separate Plant 3Ds. Yup Just divvying up the workload. If it means anything, I've gone back and forth [INAUDIBLE] You can [INAUDIBLE] If this is Vault it will never, it will never [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. So the Plant database stays separate from the Vault database the entire time. So you have your Plant data and then they are always caching the data locally and then drawing a file.

15 So if something happens to be database, move it from the project, add it back, and you have the data back in the database. So virtually, the only time that I ever see data loss is if something's crashing in the middle of a save, or something like that. Or if somebody's in Vault messing with projects they shouldn't be seeing. You have to watch the permissions there. But then, that's pretty straightforward. So you'd say, set up the SQL Server, dedicate it for Plant 3D. And I'm going to go in, create your project, and choose the SQL Server, and then you select that server that you've dedicated for [INAUDIBLE] That just goes right through the doc wizard. [INTERPOSING VOICES] After you're done. So in the process, the new project wizard says, do you want to use Vault or not? And so, you pick your Vault then, you also pick your database details as well. It also has a spot too where it says copy [INAUDIBLE] the project settings from an existing project. So if you just tap that for whatever, whether it's a SQLite or [INAUDIBLE] We actually did the same thing, where we had a template and we were unable to purge classes so we had a whole SQL Server set up not knowing that the template probably didn't need to be a full SQL instance. We recreated the whole project, the template project, into a SQLite. Just been running with that ever since. And so, every project going forward that's utilizing this template as the settings are structured, that's going to be a full SQL project going forward. [INAUDIBLE] template just resides as just a SQLite, not actually utilizes SQL Server. Very good. Next question. Oh, never mind. Anyone else? One of our most costly mistakes right now has to do with dimension continuation. And, dimension continuation, as in XML setting for the iso config file that says that the dimension line is going to go past the weld and the dimension of the next page. Seems to work fine on Tees. It doesn't seem to work fine on stoppable 90s and a variety of other fittings. Wondering if there's a filter or some other setting to get that thing to work right?

16 What we've had issues with is the designer will or the detailer will one, not drag that dimension and manual changes, like it's supposed to. So then the shop will read that dimension as the center, and the center dimension [INAUDIBLE] incorrectly. We've had situations where they did drag the dimension from wherever it decided the dimension [INAUDIBLE]. They drug it to the continuation and then didn't manually change the dimensions or the correct dimensions. So we had pipe valves with the wrong dimension. So that has been a very big source of pain for us. What's wrong about the dimension on the elbows? It just doesn't work [INAUDIBLE] dimension for the continuation of an elbow. It'll do it to a Tee. It just [INAUDIBLE] Is it still trying to go? Is it trying to go to the elbow and just not working? [INAUDIBLE] it will. I don't know. [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] positioned correctly it just doesn't go to the [INAUDIBLE] We want all of our dimensions to be center to center, and then, all of a sudden, you get this dimension that goes to an edge. That's one of those I'll have to take a look at. It included a list. Yes. All things. It works for Tees. That's it. It doesn't [INAUDIBLE] for the user or a stoppable 90, or a [INAUDIBLE], or an original, whatever. There's a lot of different things that it doesn't work with. Just wondering if that's an XML setting or is that something that's coded and it's not going to run? Are you using Plant 2016? Yes, and '17. And do you see it on both? Yes. I actually just started with '17 [INAUDIBLE] And then I went to--

17 So it could be something they need to make a code change in to fix. So I don't know of any workarounds for that one. Yeah, we'll have to take a look. Did I spell your name right? Yes sir. All right. Do you have any plans for exporting to IFC? The question was, are there any plans for exportng to IFC? Have you heard anything? I haven't from in-house [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. [INAUDIBLE] What's that? We have no-- We can neither confirm nor deny reports of exporting to IFC. I'm pretty sure it's on the Plant Idea Station as an idea to vote on to have that in there as a future feature. Do you know where the Idea Station is for Plant? Are you familiar with that? I didn't the hear the [INAUDIBLE] Are you familiar with the Plant Idea Station? That's like part of the communities, Autodesk communities. So this is one of the biggest ways that Autodesk knows what's important to you guys. They're tired of me voting up every single idea. But what you can do is go here and kind of take a gander through the list and vote up what's important to you. And then they rank those, and sort those, and go through and see what features are important. And they fix them various times. Trying to remember the last-- There's a whole list of ideas. You can do a search for IFC and vote it up. Yes? Is there a way to import a line list from an Excel spreadsheet to populate the P&ID

18 [INAUDIBLE]? No. [INTERPOSING VOICES] So the difficulty is-- The question was, is there a way to import a line list from an Excel spreadsheet to populate a list of line numbers? On the 3D side, you care about the most, I assume? The issue is, well, so no, the issue is every-- I mean, we could do that. We could create a-- I could do it with plugin but-- [INAUDIBLE] Do what? Properties would constantly be changing based on who you're working with or who the general contractor is. [INAUDIBLE] He's asking mainly just to be able to prefill instead of having people type out line numbers. [INAUDIBLE] we're always working in a [INAUDIBLE] But it changes based on the facility you were working in. If somebody has a, like you remarked earlier, the two-inch or three-inch Tee you want are 101, that would change your [INAUDIBLE]. You won't always have the same problem. Right, right. [INAUDIBLE] descriptions? Yeah. There's no way to do it right now. We could add it as a plugin feature. Huh? I think that it could be possible. I'd have to play with it. The issue would be if the project got audited it might clear out the line group table on the P&ID side. And then it wouldn't have the information [INAUDIBLE]. I might be able to look at-- Would you use the external database reference to-- I guess you would have set up a lot of fields to do that.

19 I don't know. Because it does expect an AutoCAD object for the line items and the P&IDs in order to preserve them. So [INAUDIBLE] plugin [INAUDIBLE] You did fail to see what that-- But all of those items listed in the data manager are associated directly with an object in drawing file. So there is no ghost entities or anything like that. Well, they are associated with the 3D drawing file, the [INAUDIBLE] No, it's either in the 3D drawing file or it's in a P&ID. So not at this time. The middle of the three people raising their hands. Blue shirt. Yes. When we're [INAUDIBLE] creates a [INAUDIBLE] layer for [INAUDIBLE] And it used to be that [INAUDIBLE] I'm using '16. I don't think it's fixed in '17, but I cannot purge the [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] into that so far. I know I've run into the layers. I've run in to being able to purge it. So the question was, when you create a line number it creates two layers, one for the line number itself and one to line number underscore fasteners after it. And so they want to be able to purge a layer. Do you move with the fasteners to the line number layer? No. Why are you trying to purge it? Just to tidy up the layer manager There should be objects on those fastener layers. Because-- so what it does when you connect a pipe-- [INAUDIBLE] Pardon me. It is all [INAUDIBLE] Right. But when you connect a pipe and an elbow there is a weld. And there's a connector object that's the parent of that weld. That connector is actually on the like 1,001 underscore

20 fastener layer. So that's why you can't purge it. In 2013 you could. I'm sorry. They may have fixed something in '13 and that's the way it works now. And then before it would just wipe it out. [INAUDIBLE] As long as there is an object on the layers AutoCAD isn't going to let you delete it. Sorry. Next, in the back. I was [INAUDIBLE] in forming the line numbers. We've created a [INAUDIBLE] custom new in the data manager for the line number groups in 3D. While we can't populate new line numbers, we can export to Excel, add additional information and import back in, and these will change the line numbers [INAUDIBLE] So as long as you just gave it a generic one, [INAUDIBLE] export it out [INAUDIBLE] Excel and import back in, that works. Right. So what he's on about is custom views. So you can create drawing custom views or project custom views. Before 2016 there was a bug so that these never actually displayed on the 3D side. But in 2016 and later, when you include the line group information it will list the custom view for that. So, this will be the example of-- I created a custom view called line groups. And then you can go import and export to and from Excel. What I would do is I'd export to Excel and then take a look because the sheet names at the bottom-- so the sheet name has to match. But then as long as you get that and then you get the column numbers, like the cap tag column where the P-- You're not going have the P&PID. So real quick, an aside. Use export first [INAUDIBLE] In his case, he has a prefilled Excel spreadsheet. It's not going to have the P&PID in it. So you have to do a custom import and export to tell it which column to use as a tag, basically. So that--

21 [INTERPOSING VOICES] P&PID in the Excel spreadsheet? You don't have to. It sounds like if you were to have that prefilled Excel sheet, export out of here, [INAUDIBLE] correct it will just transfer the data to a prefilled sheet so the export-- But you don't need to. If you do this and set up a custom export you can bring information in from an Excel spreadsheet. So what you're seeing here is you're seeing your line group on the left and your property list on the right. And so, right now the P&PID is checked as the unique ID up at the top, UID. Well, that's not going to be the case in your spreadsheet. So you do something like check the tag, or you might have a different field that shows your entire line number [INAUDIBLE]. So you would check that and then you could say, you would just type in the column name. What it expects is the first row of your Excel spreadsheet to have the column headers. So you make those match and then it's going to import those to the Plant 3D properties. So once you have-- Once you tag a line then you can import the data. Is there something on the line that wants to do this? [INAUDIBLE] I think so. I'll make a note to post about it. Thank you. Next question. Have you or anybody else had any trouble with Plant 3D locking up for about 10 seconds when you hover over a pipe support? No, never. [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] We're having that issue and it's slowing down progress. You're running on SQL Server and network's OK? We're not running on SQL Server.

22 So it is SQLite out of the box. I have seen where latency across the network, if you hover over something, it's trying to poll the database to pull up the tool tips information. It could cause something like that. Do you see it if you have a new project just sitting on your desktop or local? And is it fast whenever you do it that way? Honestly, I haven't tried it. Maybe try that and see. If it's faster when it's on your desktop, it's slow when you're pulling it off your network connection, it's probably something going on there because it should be pretty quick. I can't thing of anything else that would slow that down. It's probably something with the tool tips generating [INAUDIBLE] Does it happen with anything other than supports? No. [INAUDIBLE] catalogs. In fact, everything's on the network [INAUDIBLE] Wow, you found a weird one. Good job. Hovering over supports makes it 10 second later-- It's a tool tip. We'll pause. Just one second. All right. Next question. In the tag line properties is there a way in your configurations, can you guys add another find command [INAUDIBLE] configurations. [INAUDIBLE] For classes? Yes. So the question was, we need a way to find classes and class structure in project set up. That is true. Yes we do. Can you find through the XML files [INAUDIBLE] Yes you could. But the XML for the class structure is really convoluted. So it makes my eyes go cross-eyed. I go cross-eyed when I'm looking at it. Yes. [INAUDIBLE] and you close out, open back up, and add [INAUDIBLE] So that's after you-- Not even like update in ortho view or anything like that?

23 Just an ortho in a lay out. You do an ortho view, you [INAUDIBLE], annotate [INAUDIBLE] the tag [INAUDIBLE]. And you close that out, open back up, and there's a-- That sounds familiar. So we have multiple layouts under one ortho control. What version of Plant are you running? I've tried it in '15, '16, and '17. Same thing. I have seen with dynamic blocks, it can kind of throw things off. Did you have any specialized annotations that you use, or is it all out of the box? [INAUDIBLE] [INAUDIBLE] Oh, Carlos. Come on man. That sounds familiar but-- I can eliminate layout back to one or two layouts per drawing, and that issue will go away. You get above about six layouts per ortho drawing and you start having [INAUDIBLE] I was going to ask Quinten. He snuck out. He may have ran into that before. We could check into that because it sounds familiar. But it could be a limitation with the way it's working with those layout tabs. And if there's more than one it's getting confused. We have also had to-- It's almost like a ghost image, where you bring in that ortho in in a layout. If you do a different-- We're doing some as-builts for a modeling [INAUDIBLE], and if you bring in a different-- a section of that same line segment with a different view, it will pop up instantaneously over here in this layout. When you refresh, and it will go away. Wow. [INAUDIBLE] essentially is [INAUDIBLE] [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] How are you handling your xrefs? How big are your drawing file sizes? Do you know?

24 I don't know but [INAUDIBLE] You use a lot of xrefs? Is it possible that someone might be inadvertently moving an xref? No. There's only two of us working on this. I know you're perfect, but I'm pretty sure I've caught myself inadvertently moving xrefs before. I guess, for lack of anything else I can think of, maybe try and make sure the xrefs are at zero, zero. There have been some issues where you've got multiple people working and they're working on the project drawings, you're trying to generate orthos, and the ortho you retain is actually trying to lock those files. And they just fixed that. I think that's coming out the next whenever update they do. But that was a problem for a while. You're always going to have people working on the drawings where you are trying to run the orthos throughtout the day. Developers recognize that and put a fix in for it. We were having spooling with PCFs from the fabrication software. Is there a tolerance setting anywhere in [? [INAUDIBLE]?] Yes. So the question is, they do spooling and they need to see if there's tolerance settings. They added those in And there is some stuff that you need to enable in the XML. But basically, in the XML you can give it the tolerance that you want. Are you talking about weld caps? [INAUDIBLE] fittings. Just PFs between reading out the tolerances at [INAUDIBLE] when it's easiest to disconnect [INAUDIBLE] It's more [INAUDIBLE] spool [INAUDIBLE] So this is where you would set the offset tolerance. And this is in the default connectors config, that XML. But you can go through and set the offset tolerance. And then you would have to reconnect anything that's existing. But then in the future, trying to connect anything, it would see it to make a connection even if it's within that distance.

25 I think the slope tolerance is degrees and the offsets in decimal inches or something. Because if you go too far it won't let you do anything. That's weird. Definitely tested it but in 2016 and above it will recognize a tolerance. I'm also seeing [INAUDIBLE] split into spools based on their length. And on their [INAUDIBLE] fit in this spool set up to a false spool number or volume and stuff. It doesn't seem to obey those rules in [INAUDIBLE]. Is that with the PCF side out of the fabrication? Yes. It can be some of the way fabrication creates its PCFs because Plant 3D, when you set a boundary, like the maximum for a spool, it's going to break it up on its own. But coming from fabrication I'm not sure how they do theirs. Do you have this checked at that the top, place maximum field welds? No. We ran tests, we uncheck those two, and [INAUDIBLE] to the spool name for max out those numbers. It still [INAUDIBLE] I'd have to take a look. I don't-- And you said it's on 2016? And '17. Oh, and '17. Because I know there were some fixes around the spool sizing that was added recently. But we can check on-- I can check on that one. Follow up. Let me make a note. Is it every 20 feet? It's about 20 feet. Like 19 feet or-- It would split somewhere around 20 feet and then we would make the spool 5 feet long [INAUDIBLE] I guess you could note that those are from Fabrication CADmep and not Plant PCFs. Shouldn't

26 matter-- Do you know what software is generating the PCF? [INAUDIBLE] it's probably. Fabrication CADmep. Hi, how are you? [AUDIENCE LAUGHER] Behind GNC. Dark jacket. So we upgraded to Vault 2016 earlier this year, and it did help us get rid of some of our issues we were having with Plant 3D. What's the future? Should we keep upgrading? Oh, you mean like every year? Because I think last year somebody gave us, talked about-- I don't want to be out of line but 360 or something like that. I am wrong by saying that? Oh, so Project Calgary would be beyond Vault, if you want to start getting into the clouds. It just came out, public beta, the other day. So you can go out and sign up for that. I'm trying to think where posted that publicly. But it's out there now on the beta site. If you go to the beta site and sign it's one of the projects you can join and you can download. It'll be a special build of Plant 3D. You could probably install it on a separate machine or something, but it'll be like You can go in there and either take an existing project, push it up into the cloud and into BIM 360 Team and then invite people to it. And what it's going to do is, sort of like a Vault project, where you work in local. And then when you save it's going to synchronize the drawing file up to the cloud. And it's going to synchronize the database information. So far, it works pretty good for even people working worldwide. You don't have to really mess the whole Vault infrastructure. This takes care of that.

27 Does it [INAUDIBLE] Vault solution? You obviously want to give the Project Calgary time to mature but I'm going to say it's going to be easier to set up and run and maintain than Vault will be. How do you feel about Vault? Next question. [AUDIENCE LAUGHTER] I guess that's what my point is, is we're a small firm but it seems like we have issue after issue. It doesn't seem like we can do a project without having some kind of prevalent issue. And my 3D administrator always convinces me that it's the user. And it's really hard for me to believe that 20 users are always messing up [INAUDIBLE] It is hard. It's just that workflow that they have to do, and if they don't dot that one I the P&I does crash. We're talking about 13 P&IDs on a project, we're talking about maybe 50 lines. We're not huge at all. And I would say, out of the 23 [INAUDIBLE] projects we have maybe two of them did not have the [INAUDIBLE] Are you working in just one office? We were working in two offices but using Vault. The problem started with Vault. It was OK before, or-- Did the problem start when you switched to Vault? Was it OK before? It's Vault. It's Vault. We're on the servers. We're on a server that's horrible because of the connection speed was just-- had had it's own problems. So then we were convinced to go and put Plant 3D [INAUDIBLE] and we did. And then we were told, well, you got to go to 2016, and we did. And knock on wood now, because the one or two projects that we had [INAUDIBLE] 2016 seem to have Was a big improvement. I'm not going to say it's easy. There's dos and don'ts with it, I can certainly say. And you want to be careful with who you let into the Vault. Going into the Vault client, is if somebody goes there and messes with some of

28 the files-- Again, if you delete a file physically out of the Vault for a planned project, that's it. And you have to go back and restore it all. It's-- [INAUDIBLE] have that [INAUDIBLE] then the administrator has to rebuild everything. So on that one, if you know which file they deleted, if you can just get the Vault to put the file back and undelete it, then you're OK. In theory. Because if you get the-- I think I've checked a file back into Vault in the same spot. No, because Plant stores the ID now in the Vault. That changed. So the vault master database doesn't know where the Plant one is. And it's-- yeah. Yeah. The people getting the client, honestly, people getting in the client has been the biggest issue that I've seen, where it just kills people. If you can just keep it with using the project manager it can be OK. Yeah. One person that to be in there knows what they're doing, and the rest just-- Start using permissions so that people can know. Most people cannot accept the [INAUDIBLE] and the pen user can check out. Yeah. Can I just ask a question of the group on this? We're getting started [INAUDIBLE] we want to get some sample projects and we have [INAUDIBLE]. It's working well. We have [INAUDIBLE] Multiple location. [INAUDIBLE] Pretty much multiple locations is if you have two offices-- [INAUDIBLE] It depends on the distance, the latency. Yeah, ours is latency.