The Secret Sauce By: Matt Bacak & Lee Collins

Transcription

1 The Secret Sauce By: Matt Bacak & Lee Collins

2 Legal Stuff Income Disclaimer: This document contains business strategies, marketing methods and other business advice that, regardless of my own results and experience, may not produce the same results (or any results) for you. I make absolutely no guarantee, expressed or implied that by following the advice below you will make any money or improve current profits, as there are several factors and variables that come into play regarding any given business. Primarily, results will depend on the nature of the product or business model, the conditions of the marketplace, the experience of the individual, and situations and elements that are beyond your control. As with any business endeavor, you assume all risk related to investment and money based on your own discretion and at your own potential expense. Your results may vary. Success in ANY online endeavor is a result of hard work, time and a variety of other factors. No express or implied guarantees of income or spillover are made when reviewing the material provided. Liability Disclaimer: By reading this document, you assume all risks associated with using the advice given below, with a full understanding that you, solely, are responsible for anything that may occur as a result of putting this information into action in any way, and regardless of your interpretation of the advice. You further agree that my company cannot be held responsible in any way for the success or failure of your business as a result of the information presented below. It is your responsibility to conduct your own due diligence regarding the safe and successful operation of your business if you intend to apply any of our information in any way to your business operations. Terms of Use: You are given a non-transferable, personal use license to this product. You may not distribute it or share it with other individuals. There are no resale rights or private label rights granted when purchasing this document. In other words it's for your own personal use only.

3 Introduction MATT BACAK: Hey, this is Matt Bacak and I just want to let you guys know, I m just very honored to have a good friend of mine, Lee Collins here. I ll give you guys a little bit of his background so you know who I m talking with. So let me give you some background real quick on how this even occurred. First of all, I ve known Lee, I mean gosh, probably five or six, probably even longer than that, probably eight years now. He s been doing some really big stuff years ago. I even went and spoke at one of his events. But we ran into each other at an event not too long ago and then we sat down and ran into each other again. He was showing me stuff on his computer that really, I m trying to think how to say this without being like really got my greed glands going. I was going to say it in a different way but really got me excited. The reason it got me excited was because he showed me things he was doing that was absolutely amazing. Things he s done, where on average he was making over $100,000 a year, even up to $300,000, using this concept called pretty much hybrid marketing. I will tell you, this idea that I really want to kind of pound in your mind and get you guys to do and thinking about how you can implement the things that we re talking about, to really think about this. You know, I remember after I made my first million dollars, utilizing things just like what we re going to talk about today brought me from a million to 2.3 million dollars. Just to kind of give you an idea of where we re going, these are things that can totally skyrocket your business and literally, you know, make some, for some people, free money. So it s really cool. MATT BACAK: So with that being said, let me just share with you a little bit about Lee. Some of you might now know Lee and I ll kind of flip over the background page just to let you know. This is Lee, what you see here. Basically, pretty much he started, he incorporated in 2001 so that s why he says he s been doing this since He s actually been doing it a long longer from there. The one thing I ll just tell you, when it comes to people that have been around in the business as long as he has, they ve got not just a lot of knowledge but a lot of wisdom. So you re going to get a lot of wisdom here, which I m really excited about. Our private conversations that we ve had have just you know, it s just amazing and I just leave with my mind kind of going crazy. MATT BACAK: He s a direct response marketer. He s a copywriter. He s an author. He s an in-demand business strategist. He s done some amazing things. He had senior leadership at three positions and I mean, three positions at three major US corporations and on top of that, you know, he s done some amazing things. I mean, he started a home business with $500 and turned it into six figures per month. I mean, one of his biggest days, I mean, biggest you know single day, he did over $125,000. His biggest month, he did over $390,000. From home with just three people. I mean so you know, he s and he is well-sought-after when it comes to things of hybrid marketing. We re going to be talking about that even more. When I say well-sought-after, I m talking about even I don t know if you guys remember StomperNet, I mean, they ve attracted him. I know he s done amazing things with them and made them tons and tons of money for that. Plus also he s, we were talking about this a little bit earlier but he s even the one that stared the world s, co-developed the first text autoresponder. So the list of things can

4 go on and on and things like that. I know you guys want to get into it but I just want to let you know who we re dealing with here. We re talking about a multi-million dollar business model that you guys can implement, add, use or even just one freaking idea that can come from this, can really you know inject more money into your business and that s what we re going to be talking about. So Lee, I just wanted to, if you wanted to say anything or if I made a mistake on anything, please clear me up. I don t want to make any mistakes. LEE COLLINS: Just want to be sure I m un-muted here. MATT BACAK: Yeah, you re good. LEE COLLINS: Only thing is $100,000, $300,000 a year is great but that was actually per month so Did I say per year? LEE COLLINS: Yeah, yeah. That s okay though. No problem. Well I knew, I m just excited and sometimes when I get excited, I mess up things like that. LEE COLLINS: I can tell, you were just rolling right along. It s good to be sharing this conversation with you today. We had a conversation yesterday that I said we should have recorded and that s part of the reason why we re recording this one today was because yesterday s conversation was so amazing. What Is Hybrid Marketing? MATT BACAK: Oh yeah, and just to kind of clear some things up. You know, to you and I want to throw a question at you, to you, because a lot of people might have heard of the idea of hybrid marketing but they probably don t know exactly what it is. So to you, what is hybrid marketing from your perspective? LEE COLLINS: Well, the simplest way I ve found to describe hybrid marketing is let s say that you re online. It s the blending of offline and online together in a seamless and very cohesive way. So you know a lot of people, we ll get into this later probably as part of the conversation but a lot of people when they re marketing online and they re marketing offline, they re doing it in two very different ways. So if you look at it, it s looks very different. As a matter of fact, sometimes you can t even tell it s the same company because you have this, a lot of folks have this mindset of how do you market offline and by offline I mean anything not on the internet. So offline can actually be your mobile device, postcards, direct mail, lumpy mail, it could be billboards. It could be anything. It can be classified ads and we draw direct parallels between what a classified ad is and you know what it shows up as online versus offline. The way we usually describe it is you know, for the online people, I want to take you offline. For the offline people, I want to take you online. Not just taking you from one modality to another but I want to really do it in such a seamless, cohesive fashion that you re, from step one and we have this entire 60 day marketing plan that we ll talk about probably later on but every step of the way, it s just seamless, cohesive and automated. That s the biggest [ ] in the way I d describe hybrid marketing- everything can be completely automated, even if it s offline. A lot of people find that hard to believe and they find that

5 a hard step to take but you know, I ll discuss later what I mean by that automation and how you can make it happen. MATT BACAK: Yeah and I think that s going to be very sexy for a lot of people is the, even the idea of automating this process because a lot of people are you know, internet guys. I know you run into this all the time. You ve got people that are internet, doing marketing. I mean, that s really where I focus. You know, but the one of the secrets that I said at a Dan Kennedy event, I told people, I said look, I ve got people online that I take offline as quickly as possible. I mean that was one of my secrets of success. Dan Kennedy sought me out for it. And to bring something up, even this conversation and a lot of things you re doing, I remember we were talking about even Frank Kern hit you up and wanted, bought all this stuff from you and sent it out to all his people because he knew how important it is. Isn t that? LEE COLLINS: That was pretty exciting for me, too. I was in Frank s Mastermind back in I showed him my hybrid marketing and he said, I have to send this out to my people. If you know Frank or if you were in Mass Control I forget what the program was called but it s Mass Control, where he was sending your packages each month. I think it was a few hundred dollars a month for that. He said, I have to send out this hybrid marketing thing. He actually paid out of pocket to get the product, to get the CDs and DVDs replicated. He didn t just send digital. He wanted to send it in its original form, which was DVDs and CDs. So he bought the entire six CD set. Everybody, over 300 people, in his membership and sent it out to them. So you know, a few people used it and those people made a lot of money and most people didn t really do anything with it. Which we could talk for days why people buy something or get something and don t do anything with it. But it was fascinating to me that so many people got it for free basically, never did a lot with it. MATT BACAK: Yeah, we were actually just talking about that earlier today with one of my buddies at the country club, how it s so amazing the difference between people that make a lot of money and people that don t. It s because, it really comes down to one word. It s action. LEE COLLINS: Exactly. MATT BACAK: But the one thing you actually mentioned a little bit earlier and I want to clarify it because it might have been a new term for some people. I guess the best way I ll say is I represent the internet and you represent both. But there s one thing and in terminology, you said something, lumping mail. I ll give a clarification of that just so people know what the heck he said and what that really is, just to give you an idea. Defining that is lumpy mail is really what it sounds like. Lumpy mail. I don t know if you ve ever gotten anything in the mail and it s you know just maybe, somebody will put candy in. I ve got friends that actually have sent trashcans. I mean, like small trashcans. You know, they ve put something in there that s lumpy that kind of like makes it odd. It makes you feel it and want to open the thing. Open up and doing it or there, everybody s got a different way of doing it. So that s kind of defining that. just to let people know if they kind of had that question in their mind. LEE COLLINS: That s good and one of the funniest lumpy mail pieces that I ever received, it was a ball. It was a green inflatable ball and it said, Lee, let s have a ball. The person actually put a URL to a video

6 and they did a video saying let s JV together. It will be a ball for both of us. It was a lot of fun. You can have a lot of fun with lumpy mail. MATT BACAK: Oh, I ve got one in the other room that came in not too long ago. Probably about a year ago and it was a funnel, like a red funnel for funneling beer or whatever. It was really like hey, you know, let me fix your funnel. I was like, wow, that s brilliant. I thought that was a brilliant one. That s kind of, just to give you guys an indication, that s kind of what we re talking about here. That s what we re talking about when we talk about lumpy mail. Implementing The Hybrid Marketing Model MATT BACAK: Now with that being said, let s get into kind of you know, I mean, I know we kind of defined hybrid marketing but how have you been implementing or using or what are some ways that people who are listening right now can implement and use hybrid, more of this hybrid marketing model into their business? Let s kind of make the assumption that some of the people that are listening are probably starting out, some of them, not all. But and then you ve got the other type of person that s listening right now, they ve got lists and they want to make more money from the things they ve got going on. LEE COLLINS: Right. Well, you know we spoke about a strategy at the event that I shared with you that was the simplest and easiest way to implement hybrid marketing immediately in your business. I think you went back to your office and started talking to your folks about immediately doing this. You know, just to give you sort of a framing of how effective this is, every time I ve done this piece, I ve seen at least 300% increase in conversions. So let s say that you re making 10 sales per month. You know, you re going to make 30 sales a month. So you re going to see a good increase from conversions from that. Now again, those aren t guaranteed numbers. It s just what I ve experienced from what I ve done. I shared with you also that the biggest increase I ve ever seen was a 14000% increase in conversions. It was for a client I was working with. They were just completely blown away. To say that I earned my money while working for them is a complete understatement. LEE COLLINS: Basically, here s the technique. Do you want me to show this technique now or do you want me to save it for later? MATT BACAK: No, that s fine. Go ahead. Let s go. I mean we want to, I mean, I want everyone to say holy crap when they get done, they re like I never thought of this stuff. I guarantee you most people haven t. LEE COLLINS: Right. Here s the technique and this is so simple that anyone who can put up a webpage, copy and paste, can do this. So here s what you do. You get your sales page. So most of the time we write our sales pages in Word anyway so I ll say go ahead and think about your Word doc. If you don t have a Word document and you work straight in WordPress or whatever else, here s what you do. You just go and start at the top left of your page, copy everything. Put it into a Word document, if you already one then you already have that. think about it like this, in my testing, what I ve found is that

7 about 52% of the people who go to your long-form sales page, which a lot of us marketers use long-form sales pages, we could probably talk about the dispute between long versus short copy. But in every case I ve ever seen, long copy wins. Probably you ve had similar experiences, Matt. MATT BACAK: Yeah. LEE COLLINS: So you have your long-form sales page and you know, everything that I ve tested and everything I ve seen, about 52% of the people who go to your long-form sales letter, they ll print it out. If you ve ever printed out a webpage, you know when you look at it on screen versus when you print it, you can have images that instead of one page, you have big white spaces. It just looks really weird sometimes. A bunch of URLs at the top and bottom. So here s what I ve found. I found that about 52% of people print out the long-form sales page. So that got me thinking. I love to do online plus offline stuff. I started thinking, what if when they print it out, would I like it to look the way it looks or would I want it to look better? Would I like it to look the way I want to it to look when it s printed? I decided I d like for it to be nicer looking. Cleaner, no big white spaces, the images are right sized and the right places. So I did a test. And what I did was I took my document, created into a PDF. So I saved my word document to PDF and started testing this. So I already know that 52% of the people who hit the page are going to print it anyway. So I put a button on the top of the page. So you have your headline and then your sub-headline and then you have your button. Here s what the button says. The button says these words, these are the words I tested that have shown to give me the best response- print for easier reading. So this is the first big tip of our call today is print for easier reading. You have a button there and when you click the button, it gives them the option to print the PDF. When it prints, it s formatted beautifully and it looks exactly how you want it to look. The thing about it, too, is a lot of us build pages that are very heavily graphics-oriented, like my page here. You see that that s a huge graphic. MATT BACAK: Yeah. Hey, if you re showing something, you re not, I need to flip over to you. LEE COLLINS: No, I m looking at your page, what you re showing back here. So if you re looking at my homepage right there and you were to print that on the printer, that would use a ton of ink on your printer because it s very heavily graphics-oriented. So what you want to do is to be kind to the person. So if you have background graphics, big graphics like I have on this page that matt s showing you on the screen, basically, you don t want people to have to print that stuff off so you make your PDF printerfriendly. Make it look nice and format it the way you want. Now here s the thing that I ve found, too, and this is the real trick to the hybrid marketing piece of that. Having them print it out is one thing so it s printed beautifully but here s the other part. On the very last page on the very bottom, instead of having a link to your order button or an order to your sales page, you can certainly have that, too. Excuse me. But what you want to do is have a form that they can mail in to you. Because here s the trick in hybrid marketing. You ve probably heard the term you want to enter the conversation in their mind. You also want to do something extra and I ve found this is kind of the secret sauce to making it really, really, really work. So here s the extra piece you want to do. You want to enter the conversation in their mind in the modality they prefer to be spoken to. If they ve printed something off, they ve basically taken your sales letter offline. So you want to give them an offline method of sending that sale into you. Again, this has increased sales on my pages that I ve done, in client that I ve done, by 300%-

8 14000% and what you want to do is have an order form that they can simply print. With that PDF and they can mail it into you or fax it into you. Now, I actually shared this a few days ago with a few other people and they said I m immediately going to get my e-fax account back because I haven t used it for years and this is something I absolutely want to do. But having an order form there so that they can mail it in or fax it in to you and you know, I ve never seen a case where someone has done this and they haven t seen an increase in sales. For me, it was 300% but at least 200% increase in the response. MATT BACAK: Yeah and just, I just want to state what he said. I will tell you, here s one of those things. There are some guys that I know that are, that have used this in the past, you don t see many people using this strategy today just because I think the new guys don t even realize how powerful this is. And I will tell you guys that it is truly powerful. And actually, as soon as you said it, I said I ve got to get back to that. But what we re talking about, just to be clear and kind of say it in a totally different way is taking your sales letter in a sense, turning it into a PDF but having the ability so that people can, so they can fax it in, send it in to you so they can make the order. Or also, one of the things, if you think about, people sometimes want to read. I have had events where people have showed up, printed off my sales letter and read, you know, that s how. Like hey I ve got your, they printed it off. They read it. They didn t read it online. LEE COLLINS: That s how I got the idea. Some person showed up at an event with my sales letter and said, hey here s your sales letter. I just wanted to be sure that I ve got all this that s going to be offered. Absolutely. MATT BACAK: So yeah, and what we re talking about is faxing it in, mailing the order form in. You know from that, so I mean, it s a great way and it always, you know, always adds money back to your bottom line, you know pretty much. You know, and really in a day, if you ve got traffic coming to your sales letters. Even though it s crazy how some people might be afraid of this stuff but I ll tell you, if you really want to do it, it will make you a lot of money. It s really, it really will. LEE COLLINS: It sure will. I mean, the first time I started doing this kind of stuff, I mean, just to show the job, my biggest claim to fame is I like to add a zero to people s accounts. So you know, I m always the add a zero guy to a lot, lot, lot of people. So I did that to my own accounts. I was making about $10,000 a month. Implemented this offline stuff, the same stuff I m going to share with you today and all this stuff we just don t have time to get into today but it immediately added a zero to my bottom line, within a month. 10 to 15 grand and then the next month, I was making $150,000, it was just crazy. Can you imagine adding a zero to your bottom line, in a month? Just by doing some offline stuff? MATT BACAK: Yeah or adding or even adding some extra money to your bottom line in a day. Actually, it was one of the guys that owns, Mark, actually, I remember it was Mark Goldman made that, I don t know but anybody who knows him, it s a big guy who runs you know, an platform and he you know, he literally said, you know, this ll, this actually has always added money to my bottom line within a day. I mean, it does. One thing I would tell you guys is really thinking about implementing that, especially if you ve got a sales letter.

9 MATT BACAK: So that s in a sense, in order for that to be implemented or used, whether you re starting a new, creating a new sales letter, it s something to add to that or if you already have a pre-existing one, it s something to add to your pre-existing sales letter. Or in the future, if you re going to do maybe a launch, maybe you re going to do, create a sales letter or create a new product, this is a great strategy for you to use. If You Don t Have Your Own Products Or Sales Letter MATT BACAK: But let me just say this. What happens if I don t, I m really, in a sense, I don t have products out there or I don t have a sales letter out there, is there anything that I can do? Like I ve got a list, I market affiliate products but I mean, I m actually kind of curious for myself is is there anything that I can do using hybrid marketing to make more money? LEE COLLINS: Well, there s a lot you can do. You know there s ways that you cannot even have a webpage anymore of your own and still market. You talk about things like leadpages.net or you know, let s just use Lead Pages as an example. You could actually via that platform, you could market via the leadpages.net without even having to have a [unintelligible.] A lot of things we used to do, too, and I ve talked with you a bit about this, people would come to my website and they still do this. I just don t see how you re making money with this and the beauty of it is in some cases I m not. In some cases, the website is just there for informational purposes and what s actually happened is I m making my money offline. So what will happen is either I m doing direct mail, maybe I m doing a lead capture on the page. Maybe I m doing a text capture on the page. Again, you know, it was mentioned in the beginning that I helped co-develop the world s first text autoresponder back in So I m still very into using that technology to make things happen. So you know, just it all really depends on what it is you want to do. Do you want to do affiliate marketing? Have a marketing that works for affiliate marketing? You can offer products and services offline or be a direct mail or however you want to do it or you can do it via text and at the same time, not even have to have an online presence. You could just have your online presence as Facebook or Lead Pages and still make great money offline by using these strategies. How To Start With Hybrid Marketing (From Nothing) MATT BACAK: So do I need, you know, so a lot of people today, it s interesting, a lot of people today only capture addresses. That s all. I mean, literally that s all they ve got is a bunch of addresses. They don t have phone numbers. They don t have addresses. So how can somebody get started? LEE COLLINS: Absolutely. Okay, it s actually a three-step strategy and this is what I ve been doing for a long time. Let s say you offer, most often, let s just walk through a typical scenario. You offer something for free in exchange for someone s address. You may even ask for their first name. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you don t. There are different schools of thought there. The first step is you ask for the address. Now that gives bonus number one or freebie number one. Now I ve often used a two to three tier free step up kind of strategy. So if you think about an up sell strategy,

10 after the sale, you said you ve got product number one. You might be interested in product number two. So step one would be you know, ask for the address. So you get that. Step two would be we ve got the address so what else do we want? We really, really want their physical address so that we can send them something by mail. So we re going to ask them for their physical address next. If they give us the physical address, what we ll say on the thank page for the first bonuses, you got your first bonus. Now we want to send you, let s say it s an audio report or a video or something. Excuse me. And you ve got that. So they have a digital version that s downloading or available in the background. On the thank you page, you ask for the physical address. Hey, I d love to send you this so that you can watch it and on the CD, there s another bonus audio for you. So then you get their physical address on the thank you page. So you have that now. So you have their address and now you have their physical address and their full name. Then the third step is you know, hey great, you grabbed both of these things. I also have this other component that I want to send to you, you know, if you just give me your mobile number. So your step three is ask for their mobile number and I ll text you the special link to get this extra piece. So you know, I ve used a three to four step strategy to get that. LEE COLLINS: Three steps usually works. Four steps you get into other things, too, that you want to get from them but three steps usually reaches the point of pain, where they start feeling like you re being overly aggressive with it. So these three steps here keep in line that people don t feel overwhelmed, like you re being overly intrusive with them by asking them for this information. Very often you d be very surprised if you asked for it all on one form, you very rarely would get anybody to give it to you. But if you step them through this little process of address and physical address and mobile number, you re going to be surprised at how many people give you all their information to get the part two or part three of the special, of the bonuses that you re giving. What To Expect To Add To Your Bottom Line MATT BACAK: Yeah. I mean, dude, the thing is it s just a little simple thing that somebody could do and let me ask you a question. Just by doing this, what could somebody, you know, I mean, could expect? I know there s a reality of you know, some people might just totally muck up the whole thing but if somebody did it, you know, what, in reality, how much do you think somebody could really add to their bottom line with this? LEE COLLINS: You know I ve actually done these strategies in about 27 different industries. And they work everywhere but you know, the level of how they work and the money that you can make really varies by industry. So let s just say if you re an information marketer and you re selling information products, you could easily you know, what you re going to do is you get the address up front. So you re being very minimally intrusive. Right away, you re opt-in rates are going to be improved. Because in step one, all you re asking for is the address. In step two, people love receiving things in the mail. You know, I am surprised that more people don t do this because I love receiving packages in the mail. Other people do too. It s just proven. People don t do that anymore. Besides me and you and I know we re both ramping stuff up to do even more of the physical mailing stuff but people just aren t doing it on a large basis. Usually when you get stuff in the mail, it s something selling you

11 something. One of the things I want to go into maybe later or if we can t cover it on this call due to time, a different segment is really what you can do ramp that up in just a major way. How do you send people something through the mail so that it s one, not intrusive. They feel like they re getting something number two. Three, it makes them and leaves the craving more. Because you re not trying to constantly sell them stuff. You could easily double your numbers if you just did this. If you did it effectively using the systems that we can show you here. Minimally double what you re doing now and plus you ll have three different modalities to talk to people in. 98% of text messages get delivered. About 50% of mail does. In some cases, even less. So you instantly get a way to instantly contact people right in their hand, right in their pocket, right when they re looking if you get to step three. MATT BACAK: So let me make some clarifications because I don t know if you ve seen me doing it but I was typing as you were talking, giving people some notes. Step one was asking for the address. Down below, if you kind of notice what I did was, basically that s, just to be clear, that s on the opt-in page. We were sending traffic to an opt-in page. On the opt-in page, we re asking for at least their address. Like you said, some people ask for their first name. There are different schools of thought on doing that. That s where we re getting their . After somebody signs up, then they re going to the thank you page. On that thank you page, we re asking for their physical address in turn for, if they give us their physical address, we re going to send them something special in the mail. Correct? And that s on the thank you page after somebody signs up? LEE COLLINS: Yes. Where To Ask For Their Mobile Number MATT BACAK: It s not a question mark here. It s just blinking. Okay so, I heard you but I want to be clear. So because opt-in, thank you, now where do I ask for the mobile number again? LEE COLLINS: If you ask for the physical address, they re going to be giving you the physical address and they ll press the button and say submit. Not submit. We never use that word. They will be providing their information. There s also going to be a thank you page for that. The thank you page for the physical address is going to ask for the mobile number. And you can say something to the effect of if you give us your mobile number, we ll let you know when your product ships and also give you another special audio recording or something else. Whatever, you know, be very creative with this part because people love to know what happens next. I could actually give you a tip on that now, too. One of the most important phrases I ve learned in doing any kind of marketing is to tell people what happens next. So as a matter of fact, when you opt-in to my stuff, when you opt-in to something, you know, that I offer, the thank you page, most often, at the top will say something to the effect of thank you for grabbing this special report. I ll name the special report, whatever it is. Then below that, there will be a big headline and the big headline will always say here s what happens next. That s one of the things I find severely lacking in the market with most people is I don t know if you have Matt but I have in the past, I ve received s from folks right after they opt-in that says hey, what happens now? I didn t get a thank you page. Maybe something glitched on their computer or they didn t get the , you know, of what happens. Should I already received this or not? But that s a very important phrase for

12 people and probably our 3 rd or 4 th tip on this call so far is tell people what happens next. Maybe when you get the mobile number, you say here s what happens next and you send them a text that says here s what happens next. You should have already received the log in or the download page. If not, contact support. And your physical package will mail to you in the next three days or whatever the case may be. What Happens Next MATT BACAK: Yeah and so I mean, just so you guys know, while he was saying that, I also typed it out. Not saying, I just put it down as a tip regarding this, tell them what happens next. I thought it was a really good thing. Here s from an internet you know, more perspective of what I m seeing and more of because you know, we ve been doing this forever so we kind of do look at what people are doing. We kind of bite our tongue sometimes when we see people doing things that you know and everything else. Here s what I see from my perspective and it s actually interesting because you made a comment about a lot of people not knowing, not from us but with other people and I ve had it where I signed up for someone s opt-in page and in a matter of you know, and I m done. I m like what the heck? Did I even sign up? Did it even work because they re not even telling us that. What people are doing and there is nothing wrong with it and I ll share with you a better way, the way that I do it. So I ll kind of share with you guys this. Actually, I m going to be implementing this really quickly. That s actually, these notes just so you guys know, you re actually seeing me keep my notes. So these are my notes, for me. LEE COLLINS: So you re going to get access to Matt s secret notes from our call. MATT BACAK: Yeah. Absolutely. But the point I want to make is a lot of people are jumping straight to that because right now, what s being preached by some of the newer guys in the business is like hey guys, what you want to do is have an OTO after you re going to the page. Which is fine and great and it s a way, especially when you re buying solo ads and you re driving traffic to opt in pages and people are doing this, you know, buy straight to the OTO page. But they re not saying thank you. They re not saying you know, anything else. How I do it and I don t know if you guys are familiar with a thing called a meta-redirect but with my stuff, I actually have people opt-in. They go to a meta-redirect that splashes up in front of them. This is kind of my little way of doing it. Splashes up in front of them and it says, thank you very much. Then I tell them here s what happening next. It s kind of blinking like it s about to, like connecting and it says, so I tell them right there. It s not really a thank you page. But it tells them, you know, right there and I drop them on whatever page. That s something and just to kind of share, that s what I do. The reason is because I m actually, if I am having something behind it, I actually drop pixels there and do other things there. Conversion tracking and everything else and doing for online but only reason I m bringing that up is because most people don t even do it. At all, is telling people what happens next. I will say that is very important and you know, especially from a user perspective because a lot of people and Lee, you can, it sounds like you and I think, dude, I was thinking about this last night. I told my wife last night, I said Lee and I are so like parallel. I don t know. It s like, our experiences, our LEE COLLINS: It was freaky, right?

13 MATT BACAK: It was really freaky. LEE COLLINS: We were talking about this yesterday. It s weird. MATT BACAK: Another thing I ve noticed while we ve been talking and it sounds like your mind kind of works like mine where when you don t and give you guys an example, what I think, I don t think I ve ever met anybody like this where he has a marketing mind and he also has a technical kind of engineering mind. We both have it. I think this is the first time I ve ever realized it. I thought I was the only one in the market. You ve got marketing guys out there. They re really cool and entertaining and then you ve also got the technical guys out there. The guys that are pure tech, it s so boring listening to them. They re the ones in SEO. Just talking about SEO straight up is boring as hell, quite honestly. Then you have other guys like us and that s why I think it s a really cool, him and I coming together. We have both the tech side and also the marketing side, come together and merge together as one. What it allows me to do, whenever I look at things, I m looking at points of failure. I m not just looking at points of failure. I look at things in a perspective of putting myself really and this is a copywriting and a marketing skill is putting myself in the shoe of the people that are going through my process. If you re not doing that, and a lot of people don t. They say this guy told me to do this, therefore, I m doing it. They re forgetting the fact and people do forge the fact that you know, if I was the real person going through this, what am I going to see? What is going to look like? What am I experiencing? You know? Even the concept of telling people what happens next because you do want to know what happens next. So it s really important, I think it s a really great tip and really important for people to know. Your Page Isn t For You LEE COLLINS: And it s so simple. It s so overlooked by so many people. You know, and I love your page. Your meta-redirect. I ve done something very similar to that, too, where I have it lands on a thank you page. There s a delay built in before it takes them to the real page where they get something. You can find these, you can find gifs online that are a status bar or something. It gives the appearance that something s happening because people like the appearance that s something s happening. It could be a countdown. Or this page, this page doesn t redirect you to the member area in five seconds, then just click this link. You ll have people who click the link but other s will just wait and just watch the image or graphic. It s fascinating to watch and see and I love the fact that you said, you like to think about the person going through the funnel. Very recently, you know, some changes were made to a page and basically, this page was built for the customer. That s what a lot of marketers tend to forget is that the page isn t for you. It doesn t matter if you like the page at all. You know? You need to take your ego out of it. It doesn t matter if you even like the colors. What matters is do your visitors like the colors? Does it get the response that you want? Is it being effective for the purpose that you want it to do? That s the most important thing. Not you know, I don t like these colors. Well, does your audience like the colors? That s all that really matters. MATT BACAK: Yeah. Well, I know that from, I ll give you guys an example. Online, my wife is selling some stuff online through Facebook and you know, I was working with her last night. And she, I mean, it was kind of the first time, usually she s been doing it where she s just putting up you know, one ad and

14 that s it. I was like, no, we ve got to split test. I m big into split testing. I m like I want you to do different variations, different look and feels. I m turning her into a split testing maniac. She has a number mind, better than mine. So I was like, yeah, you know, I mean, but and she was like oh, I really think. I don t want to do this one because I don t like it. I said I don t care what you like babe. When it s all said and done, you re going to like the ones that make you the most money, right? She s like yeah. I said okay, then just put it up. Just because you don t like it, I said and here s my comment to her, I said 99% of the time, what I think will work doesn t work. What I think won t work, will work. You know? I said I only can trust numbers. The numbers don t lie. The numbers tell stories. The numbers are going to be the key, have always been the key to my business, you know, the numbers. It s really important because the numbers you focus on, the numbers that grow. MATT BACAK: You know, and really, when it all comes down to business, now the cool thing is Lee s a really great guy. My wife and I were talking about it. Man, it s like, you know, Lee and I both have gone through some personal changes over the years, too. You know, over 15 years, you know, everybody kind of grows and evolves and even my wife noticed it. She was like he s the guy from that? I was like yeah, you know. It s like it s amazing how we just all grow into things. The reason I bring that up is you know, I ve, I say that because there s also a personal side to us but let s get personal sides. Let s get personality and everything out of the way and let s look at business. Just straight business. Business isn t about emotions. MATT BACAK: Business is about numbers and you know, I ve a really good friend that makes about $14 million a year online or who has made up to that with just three employees at his house. He said something to me one day and actually, I wrote it down on my wall. I m staring at it right now. It s just a math problem. When I call him up on the phone, this guy has no emotion. He s an ex-attorney so he doesn t have much emotion. He literally, he said to me, he said Matt, it s just a math problem. Just do this. It s like oh dangit, you know? To him, everything is just a math problem. But when you really think about, that s what business is. You know one of the great things about that, that s why I kind of get an idea of some of these numbers, you know, is even you know, doing things like this. This is a great thing for people to implement. Some people like you know, will just go and do it. And make it work. Some people will go and maybe be even just testing it. However you want to implement it, this would be a great thing to implement inside your business. Implementing The Hybrid Marketing Model; An Example MATT BACAK: Now and I think this is great. Now can you, one thing just kind of hone this in, pound this in a little bit more. Can you give an example of what an opt-in page, maybe one more time, like okay, so we have the opt-in page, can you just give a, on the opt-in page we ask for the and we get that. We know on the thank you page, we re asking for the mailing address. On the thank you page of asking for the physical address, we re actually getting their mobile. But can you kind of give us, kind of like a widget, like give an example of maybe going through the process of the widget? On the first , you know, we re bribing them with something and with this, we re bribing with this. Kind of give an idea so people can really solidify this in their mind.

15 LEE COLLINS: Sure. Let s say MATT BACAK: Maybe an example of your own, whatever you want to do. LEE COLLINS: Right. Let s say it s a lot of people like to give away just simple, reports or PDF reports. So hey, opt-in to get ten ways you can [unintelligible.] So here s ten ways you can implement hybrid marketing in your business today. So that s report number one. It s pages long, sometimes a little longer. It just depends. The next one could be, you know, in addition to the report, I d love to send you my free DVD of me walking you through this, where I have a whiteboard session. I take the video camera and recorded myself doing whiteboard and showing you, instead of just having you read it on the PDF report, I might show you on camera how to implement those ten things. So hey, if you want my free DVD, just give me your physical address. I ll send it to you free of charge or you can ask for shipping. I ve actually asked for $5 shipping and it does very well. That helps you pay for your product as well. Covers the cost of your shipping and your production of the DVD. I don t know, you know, back in my time, when we were doing this Kunaki. MATT BACAK: I was going to say Kunaki. Kunaki popped in my head for a lot of people. LEE COLLINS: It was a great way to do it for a lot of people. Being around the marketing environment, there doesn t seem to be a lot of people using Kunaki like we did back in the day but I still use it today. It still works fantastic. It s just a few bucks to get your CD or DVD produced and shipped pretty much anywhere in the world. You know, five bucks covers that. So that s your second one and then hey, you know, you ve already requested the report. Do you have the DVD coming in the mail? How would like a bonus webinar session or whatever? Just give me your mobile number and I don t have it scheduled right now but as soon as I get it scheduled, I ll send you a text and let you know so you can register. So that could be, you know, that s a funnel I ve used in the past very successfully. I m looking to put together a webinar and I need your mobile number so I can be sure that you receive it. Then of course, when you go to market your webinar or send the webinar information, you ll send it via . You ll probably send it via postcard and you can text it as well. So people get three different modalities and three different ways to get the information that you re trying to send them. Does that make sense? MATT BACAK: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Just so you know, I popped up Kunaki on the page while you were talking just so people know what it is. It s K-U-N-A-K-I. It s a good reference for a lot of people. Just show you re their page. It s ugly but you know what? They re easy to work with, you know, automatic fulfillment. Everything. And basically, you know, it s really cool. LEE COLLINS: This page looks like exactly the same since probably nine years ago. MATT BACAK: I don t think they ve changed it but you know, they don t have to. I think these people do a lot of volume, this is where a lot of people do you know, I ve got to the point where I have you know, I had in-house and now actually, I have a relationship with a guy that, a person that does just like Kunaki that s down the road. But this is a great starting point for a lot of people or a great ending point for a lot of people if they re looking at doing stuff right here. It s just however you want to do it. You know, I mean, there s fulfillment houses around, in development and people that duplicate,

16 manufacture and you know, distribute the stuff for you. Just something to kind of throw up there when it comes to this is this right here. I wanted to make sure people had access to that. Opt-In Rates Aren t What They Used To Be MATT BACAK: With all this being said and I ll tell you guys this is like, I mean, to me it s a grade. What he mentioned earlier and I don t think anybody, maybe some people caught it or might not have caught it but this is a super awesome strategy to differentiate yourself and not only just to differentiate yourself but when he mentioned webinars, what, I mean, the one of the biggest issues, see and Lee we probably got a and you and I talked about this yesterday, you know, today open rates aren t like they used to be. What was the, you were saying about 5 years ago, 6 years ago, open rates were where, like 20% you were saying? On average? LEE COLLINS: Well, what we found is we did a lot of testing and you know, one of my buddies, he dedicated about three months to testing this. So we looked at a lot of numbers from this. What we found was you and I used to be in a technical field. I used to run routers and servers for a few companies. So way back in the day, I kind of was in charge of internal internets and even some wide area networks. One of the things I know is that between you sending from wherever you re sending from, your and them receiving your , there s four to five hops. There s their mobile server, there s routers on the internet, there s other servers along the paths. There s four to five different hops. If you would imagine a line and at the start of line A is a note. Then there s four or five little notes and a recipient on the end. There s a lot of people on the path making decisions for you about what s get received and which ones don t. LEE COLLINS: It could be a trigger word along the path. You ve had about trigger words for internet service providers, service providers, where you know that if you include this word in your it s probably going to get spam trapped. That s an important clarification, too, and I ll try to remember to come back to it later. I m just saying that out loud to make myself a little note but you know, what we were finding is about 50% of your , before the Spam filter existed, almost all the s came through there. But after the spam filter, ever since the advent of the spam filter, s have just been declining at a dramatic rate. Commercial s is what we re talking about. Personal s aren t as impacted but they re starting to be impacted as well. But commercial s, about 50% is what was being received. So being a marketer, I want more than 50% of my messages being received. That s one of my first four areas in the hybrid was how can I be sure that more people receive my message? I started looking at text technology. And you know, again, I mentioned earlier that, I think I did, that I developed one of the first text autoresponders because I saw that as an emerging technology. Now it didn t take off quite as well as we hoped it would but I m still using it today with some really good results. So it s all about getting deliverability. There s no spam filter in your mailbox so if someone sends you a letter, there s no spam filter there. 98%-99% of that mail is getting to you if you use offline technology versus online technology. That was a long roundabout way to say that but it s all about how much of your message do you want to be delivered to the other side? If you want the most, the