K'3?-^> KONG PHOK START OF TAPE ONE/ONE, SIDE A KONG PHOK December 19,2000 BARBARA LAU: Today is December 19, right? KONG PHOK: Yes, 19. BL: That' s 2000. I'm at the Greensboro Buddhist Center. This is BarbaraLau. And now see, I' ve forgotten. You said that people call you Tommy, but that' s not really your name. Tell me what your name is. KP: My real name is Kong Phok. BL: Okay. And also, we' re with Phramah Somsak Sambimb, who s sitting in on the interview, and is going to help ask questions. So maybe you could tell me, do you know what day you were born? KP: I was born March the 6th, 1976. BL: And where were you born? KP: Battambong, Cambodia. BL: I understand that you left Cambodia when you were very young. Do you remember, or has your family told you the story about how your family left Cambodia? KP: Yes, but it s very long time. But I try my best to answer. My parents, we stay in Cambodia, I think in the refugee camp for I think at least one year. Then we move to, I think it s Philippines? Phramah Somsak Sambimb: Thailand. KP: Thailand. PSS: Then Philippines.
KONG PHOK 2 KP: Philippines and- BL: Were you very young when your family left? KP: Yes, I was very young. BL: Does your family talk very much anymore about what happened in Cambodia? KP: They did tell us once, but they try not you know, it was very bad back then, and they don' t want me to remember all those bad thing happen. But if I ask them any question, they would answer any question I ask, which I don' t ask too many. All I ask is just how many sister, how many brother do I have. And we do have a big family, you know. BL: How many people left when your family left? KP: Total we have eight family. And I have three-1 think two sister or one brother die. And I have one, the oldest, in Cambodia, which he' s still living right now. BL: So one still lives in Cambodia- KP: Yeah. BL: - but some were killed during the Khmer Rouge time? KP: Yeah, killed, cause of starvation. BL: They died? KP: Yeah. BL: So when your family went to the refugee camp on the border, how many of you were there? KP: That I- BL: You don' t remember? KP: - couldn' t remember. BL: Okay.
KONG PHOK 3 KP: I have a bad memory, I guess. BL: Well, that s probably, like your parents say - they re not necessarily good memories. KP: No. BL: So you were saying that you then went to a camp after in Thailand, you went to a camp in the Philippines. Do you remember how old you were when you lived there? KP: I think I' m around like four or five, I guess. BL: So you spent a couple of years in the camp in Thailand? KP: Not that long, but pretty - BL: And then did your family come from Philippines to the United States then? KP: Yes. BL: And where did they settle? Did they come directly to North Carolina or a different place? KP: If I remember, I think we came down here first. BL: To North Carolina? KP: Yeah. It was my uncle who went to California before he came here. But I think my family came down here to Greensboro. BL: How old were you then? Do you remember that? KP: I think I was eight or nine. BL: So you were old enough to go to school? KP: Yeah, I came here and- BL: And did you have brothers and sisters then that came with you? KP: Yes. I have one older sister and one younger brother.
KONG PHOK 4 BL: So the three of you children and then both your mother and your father? KP: Yeah, Mom and Dad, yeah. BL: And then you said you had an uncle that went to California. He went to California first? KP: Yeah. He came down here before my family did, and came here a couple years. Then I think he sponsored us - no, actually, the Lutheran Family sponsored- bring our family down here, yeah. BL: Then he went to California with his family- KP: Yeah, he chose to live in California. BL: With his family or by himself? KP: With his family. PSS: Just one year, then he came back here. BL: Oh, so he stayed there for a little while, and then he came back to North Carolina? KP: Yeah. BL: Do you remember what you thought about North Carolina or the United States when you first came here? KP: When I first came here? BL: Uh-huh. KP: Well, it was my first time in America. If you' re talking about right now, I mean, North Carolina is really a good place to live. I' ve been here all my life. My family doesn't travel that much. I love North Carolina. It' s very quiet and peaceful. The school and everything is real good. I haven' t get any trouble in North Carolina. I mean, I think it
KONG PHOK 5 is a good city. BL: A good city. KP: Good city. BL: When you were little, did you go to school right away? KP: In North Carolina? BL: In North Carolina. KP: Yeah, I start off- actually, I start off in fifth grade. And then actually, I was kind of young. Then the teacher asked me, well, how old I am and stuff. And then it wasthe age wasn t qualified for the fifth grade, so they dropped me back down to third grade. BL: Were you in ESL [English as a Second Language] classes? KP: Yes. BL: So when you came over, did you speak any English at all? KP: Not at all. BL: What do you remember from being in elementary school? Was it hard because you didn' t speak English? KP: Yes. It is very hard. I mean, [as a ] kid, you know [you] get pick on. They'll pick on you. Yeah, it was very hard to learn. BL: Well, what happened to you? Did the kids pick on you? What kind of stuff did they do? KP: Like you know, not talking- pronouncing correct words, and not able to communicate with them very well. They just- we just different, that' s all. That was back then, though. BL: Were there other Cambodian kids in your class then?
KONG PHOK 6 KP: Yes. There was a couple Cambodian kids. BL: So were you able to be friends with them? KP: Yeah, we were friends. Some, they shy. You know how girls are, our parent train- I mean, teaches most girl, they' re shy, and they won t talk to you even though you' re the same, Cambodian, you know, but they won' t hardly talk to each other because- BL: Because you' re a boy? KP: Because a boy and girl, you know. But if boy, boy, is okay. PSS: That our tradition. BL: Right. KP: Yeah. That' s just the culture that' s- BL: Do you remember the name of your elementary school? KP: Yes. Vandalia Elementary School. BL: Was there any particular things that stick out for you, memories of your elementary school, things that happened, your teachers, or things that were good or bad? KP: I would never forget the first time I saw snow. I think my teacher was kind enough. She told everybody to sit down, but she was kind enough for me to go outside and to play with the snow, because it was my first time seeing snow. She let me play out there. Everybody was staying in the classroom. I would never forget that. It was kind. It was her kindness for letting me do that. BL: So it was pretty exciting, then, huh? KP: It was exciting, yeah, for me. BL: Was education important to you when you were a little kid? KP: Yes, it was very important, because every single day when I get home, my
KONG PHOK 7 parents will always remind me, you know cause since they came down here, they not speak any English. Dad was working two jobs trying to support us. Mom wasn' t working back then. A few years later when we stayed down there four or five years, she got a job, which didn t pay that much back then, and they support us. They say education very good. You have to have it. I always think about it every time I go to school I mean, that' s in high school, but talking about elementary, we didn' t know anything about skipping and stuff. When we high school just kid always skipping and stuff. I mean, I' m not perfect myself. I do skip and stuff, but I chose, you know, not too far to fail the class or anything. It always in my memory, every time when I do something wrong and stuff in school, always mom and dad will always pop up in my memories. BL: Reminding you that the school- here? KP: Reminding me it' s important what they are. BL: Do you remember what kind of work your dad was doing when they first moved KP: Oh, wow. When we first moved down here, he was working in a restaurant, and a janitor in some kind of hospital. I couldn' t remember the name right now. BL: What kind of place did you live? KP: We was living in an apartment, which is I think one bedroom and one- BL: So a lot of people in not a lot of space? KP: About five people. BL: What kind of neighborhood? Who were your neighbors? KP: The neighbors? BL: Did you talk to your neighbors?
KONG PHOK 8 KP: We try to talk, which at that time I was young. My older sister which know a little bit more English than I do, and my parents always tell us to respect others, and always try to talk to your neighbor and get along with them. My sister, we always talk. We have friendly neighbors, and we talked to them. It is kind of hard, because my sister, even though she know how to speak English and understand, English is her- like I said, her English weren' t that perfect yet. We have good neighbors, and we do get along with them very well. BL: So you didn' t have any trouble in the neighborhood really, with people thinking you were really different or you didn' t belong here, or anything like that? KP: No, we didn' t have a problem. BL: That's great. KP: I' m glad we didn' t have that problem. BL: Did you hear about that from other people though? Was that a problem for some other people you knew? KP: Yes, I heard. BL: What kind of experience did they have that they would tell you about? KP: They would have problem like, you know, the neighbor doesn' t get along with the neighbor. They' 11 start a problem because they couldn' t, you know, get along with the neighbor because I guess they' re different. I don' t hear too much. I don' t like to get involved with any problems of something like that, because that was how I taught to sometime mind my own business if I could. If something I can help, I can help out. BL: So your parents really encouraged you to work on getting along at first- KP: Yeah, getting along, that' s the number-one thing.
KONG PHOK 9 BL: Did you spend a lot of time hanging out with kids in the neighborhood, or mostly just with people in your family when you were little? KP: Hang around with kids in the neighborhood. BL: Did they influence you, do you think? KP: A lot. BL: In what ways? KP: Well, when I was young, going back to high school, I was involved with a lot of gangs friends and stuff. It was like I told my brother, like I tell myself, you know, it' s not them who can make you join, it' s you who, if you chose not to, you' re not. I do hang around with them, but I' m not turn myself to be like them. I' m just being their friend, but not like a best friend. I' m playing around with them, but I' m choosing a smart way to, you know, to choose my life, what I want to do with my life. They can' t force you to do it if you don t want to. BL: Did that kind of stuff start when you were really little? When you were in elementary school or junior high? If you were to go back to just a little bit and think about, when you were eight or nine or ten years old, then as you got a little bit older KP: I didn' t go to school at all when I was in my country, because it' s not like school over here, you don' t have to pay for school unless you' re going to college or maybe have a scholarship or something that will help you. But back then in my country, I think you have to have money in order to go to school, if you don t, you can' t go to school or maybe - BL: So when you left elementary school, what did you like about that? I mean, were there certain subjects you liked or certain things you liked about school then? Or was it just
KONG PHOK 10 something your parents wanted you to do, and you kind of had to go? KP: Well, a little bit both way. I was excited when I started in elementary school. I was excited. Number one, to ride a bus, and two to meet friends and stuff. I thought the school was good, which it is okay. I mean, I love school, have good teachers, and meet a lot of friends, get to know a lot of people and BL: Do you remember things you learned about Americans then that were different from like the way that you grew up or the way that you lived when you first went to school? KP: The food. The food and the culture. This might sound a little personal, but the way you respect the way they give respect to the parents. You see, our parents I mean, I have a friend which I think is good, I mean, the way they treat their parents. They will try to get along with their parents, like friend. Ours, we can' t be friend with our parents. There' s some level that you have to be, no matter what- how much you love them and stuff, parents always parents. You can' t like call the name by name. I have American friend which I like the way their lifestyle is, you know, his parents will try to get along with him, you know, and call your parents by name, like first name. We can' t. They' 11 play with [their] parents, and go out and do little hobby thing like fishing and stuff. But our parents, they don t do those kind of stuff with us. I'm not mad at them or anything, but I wish they could do that - spend time with the kids and go out more often to show that you care for the kids. You know, if they do good in school, take them out [to] Celebration Station or- that' s how I' m going to raise my kid, since I have a kid. But I don' t blame my mom and dad, because they been over there in the country, and they follow the culture so long, and you can' t expect them to change. I won' t expect them to change. But I' ve been raised in the United States for a long time.
KONG PHOK 11 I've been here almost 18 years. My wife been here longer than I have. We are Americanized. We always remember Cambodia. But like you ask me, do I consider myself Cambodian or Cambodian-American, I consider myself as Cambodian-American. I cherish both way the same amount. BL: Did your parents when you were young try to teach you things about being Cambodian? KP: Yeah, they would teach us not to forget Cambodian, but not to take Cambodian the first priority, but try to teach us not to forget how w what they' ve been through. I mean, I haven' t been through a lot. But my parents, my sister, they been through a lot. They try to not let us forget all about that. When we came to United States, even though we have a job, have a place to stay, try not forget where we were before. BL: What did they want you to remember? What were the good things they wanted you to remember about being Cambodian? KP: Good thing- BL: Language? They wanted you to speak Khmer? KP: Yeah, they really wanted me to speak Khmer. But like I said, I didn' t go to school-1 learn how to speak Khmer. See, in English, I went to school for it. Khmer I just learned from people talking to me. I just 'cause that' s my language, and I just learn it. I don' t even know how to read and write, which I am mad at myself about. But I' m not really, really mad because I did not get to go to school or stay- wasn' t that old in Cambodia to learn enough in Cambodian. But I' m trying to talk I try once to learn how to read and write with the Adjan or with other teachers, and I just couldn' t catch on so fast. Cambodian is much harder than English, maybe because I learn English. I no read and write, but I think
KONG PHOK 12 my language is very hard to me. Buddhist? BL: What else, what about religion? Did they teach you very much about being KP: No, not really. I mean, when I was small I went to church and all that. But to me, I believe it' s just different religion. There' s only one God. I mean, I go to church, I mean, go to temple. I mean, there' s no hate, you just have to go. When I was young, those churches, they sponsor me. They help me with my family and stuff. They' re real nice. I mean, temple too. Temple is good place. It' s church. It' s just you use different phrase, different words, you know, to make it- you know, church is church, temple is church, but it' s one God. BL: So when you were little, did your family hang out with other Cambodian families or KP: Yes. They have friends. BL: Yeah. And so what kinds of things did you all do when you' d get together? KP: Talking about as family? BL: Uh-huh. KP: Most time, they' 11 talk, you know, back in the country and stuff, which I don' t know too much. Mom and dad will talk, mom will talk to her friends. And her friend- most of her friend lived in the same hometown with her back in Cambodia. They 11 talk. They' 11 ask, you know, how many family they have in the United States that' s still alive. Basically, they' 11 talk about that and cook, and they' 11 talk about- BL: So what do the kids do? KP: The kids just play. We don' t know anything about it. But that's me. I wish I
KONG PHOK 13 could know more because I really want to learn more about it. Sometime I have to read Cambodian books to know about my own country. Sometime I very disappointed in myself. BL: When you were in school, were you interested in that kind of thing, learning more about Cambodian history or culture? KP: Yeah, learning different cultures. I very interested in it. BL: So did you do it? Were you able to do any of that in school, when you were, say, in high school? KP: You' re talking about doing research? BL: Yeah. Were there any teachers who encouraged you to do any of that, or did you read any books? KP: Yeah, my history teacher, he encouraged me to learn, but not in Cambodian. You know, like what school recommend, like the World War II and stuff like French. But I never learn about my country. We never learn anything about Cambodia in high school. It' s not in the book at all. I have to do my own research to learn. I 11 ask Adjan or my parents to learn more about Cambodia. BL: Did you do that when you were in high school? Is that something that was interesting to you, or did that come later? KP: No, that was in high school. I was trying to learn- if I can' t learn from the book, but there' s some new student who came from Cambodia which learned more than I do. I' 11 ask them how it is, how you know so much about Cambodia? How you know how to read and write? How come you' re so smart? I mean, 'cause I know English already, they think I' m good with English, and they think English is hard. I think Cambodian is hard. So we switch about. He' 11 teach me some word that I don' t know, or something that I don' t
KONG PHOK 14 know about Cambodia, and I 11 teach him something about America. But we all from same Cambodia, which he knows more about Cambodia, he just recently came to United States, that' s why. BL: So you had to learn sort of from your peers and friends? KP: From peers, friends, yes. BL: And your parents? KP: Parents. BL: So as you got older what high school did you go to? KP: Smith High School. BL: There were a lot of different kinds of people at Smith High School? KP: Many, many different kind. BL: What was that like? What was high school like? KP: When I was starting high school, school is a little bit too hard. I mean, a little bit- not hard as in study, but hard as in like getting along with people. Since it' s like different people mixing, different grade level mixing, and it was very hard to get along with people Smetime you have to join a crowd or you have to [be] average person to be, to have a friend. I wasn' t an average person. But sometime I seen people picking on other people, not only Cambodian, but African or whatever. It really hurt me. That when I disobeyed my parents, you know, stop sticking nose in other people business, that when I take action. I do stick nose in people business. I mean, that' s wrong for me. I involved with a lot of things like that, like- BL: It sounds like you were sticking up for some people, you know?
KONGPHOK 15 KP: Not sticking up- I mean, not certain people. I don' t care, like an American, I mean, this picking on not only like international people. Even in America, it' s own people, they 11 pick on. It would be like, for instance, like nerd and stuff, and that bothers me. That really bother me. I' 11 say something, even though that person is in my group or hang around me. To me, friend is friend. You have to understand how your friend feel. You can' t force, or you can' t do anything bad. If you want a friend, your friend have to understand where you' re coming from. They have to accept that. BL: What kind of friends did you have in high school? KP: I have very bad friend. I have to admit it. I have friend who s in gang, who steal. I mean, the answer to your question, I mean, I hang around with a lot of bad crowd. BL: How did you get into that, do you think? What drew you to that? KP: Most the friend I have, they in my classroom. I was young back then, and I thought when I hang around with them - I thought education wasn' t~ all I was thinking is to get GED for my parents, to finish high school. I wasn' t thinking about college too much, but until I have family and job and stuff. What they require, bachelor degree, associate degree, now I realize school is very important. You have to get the degree. It doesn' t matter what you know and what you do with those. Back then school wasn' t that important to me, but my main goal was to finish high school for my parents, at least. And the kids- back to your question, and sorry to have to skip like that- and- BL: No, no. That's okay. Goon. KP: And to the kids, the reason how I get involved with them is cause, like I said, classroom, student, you know, just classroom. I mean, sometime you just can' t say 'no'
KONGPHOK 16 or say whatever, you just have to get along with them. But you have to make the smart decision, not them make your decision. So I hang around with them, but they never make my decision. They always ask me, hey 'let's go, let' s skip this, let' s do this, do that,' - many bad stuff. Most the stuff, I would say 'no.' But they always come to me and be my friend. I thought that if I say that they won' t be my friend, but they treat me better now these day. I meet with them, they have family, some are killed. Some that I know that I meet, they have family. They change too. But they wait until it' s too late to change. But I didn' t chose their path. So after high school, I was working. When I was in high school I was working so hard. I wasn't able to do any school activities like play soccer or basketball, which I want to do. But me when I was in that age, I always supported myself. I always go to school. I work part-time. I was working nine hours at a restaurant. I get off like 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and I have to come back and do my homework some and then try to go to school early and do homework. Sometime the teacher give you like certain minutes before class is over, like go ahead and start doing your homework, and I' 11 try to do that which is very hard. I wish I would have more time to do school activities, like playing football, soccer, volleyball or whatever, which I didn' t have the opportunities like most other students. BL: Well, did you work because your family needed you to work or because you wanted extra money? KP: You see, most kids, they depend on their parents. I' m the type of person, I like to depend on myself. I always respect my parents, but I like to support myself. I would like to- you know, like my wife- like my sister, my parents chose her husband. Me, I disobey my parents for choosing my wife right now. I mean, which she not dislike her or anything. I
KONGPHOK 17 chose my own wife, and I have to prove to her that she' s wrong. She' s not bad or anything. In our country we cannot go out or anything. Which I went out, but always go out like I mean, not take her out. I' d probably go visit her house or anything, go eat or something. I didn' t introduce her to my parents unless about a year or two years because I know how my parent is. You know, they want me to get married to the girl who I don' t love or anything. I chose my wife right now. I disobeyed them for choosing her. I have a little brother having the same problem like I do, but he' s kind of confused right now. He wasn' t the same problem like I do, I was sticking with one woman which is my wife right now, but he' s gong back and forth. And it's not the same like me. Right now my parents even apologize to me, which I don' t want them to, but they apologize. That you know, they' 11 sit and talk to me. They really realize that even though I disobeyed them, I chose the right path for my family, for my parents is always my parents, but my family is my family. What need to be done, that' s me. I need to take care of it. And mom and dad is always mom and dad, would never change. BL: It sounds like your path with your parents started dividing when you were pretty young? KP: When I was pretty young. Yeah. BL: What do you think led you in a little different direction? KP: Not to say that I and my parents don' t get along. Me and my parents get along real well. It' s just the way I choose. Like cars, like they want me to get a certain car. They' 11 make an offer with me 1- like if I choose this car. But actually, it' s not the car that I want to have. But let' s say they' re willing to pay you know, half if I chose a car that they love. And I didn' t go that way. I chose the car that I like, which I end up having to take
KONGPHOK 18 care of everything, the insurance and the car payment which they just say that because I guess they want me to work hard. But if I ever downfall, I know they would be there for me. But I don' t think that way. So far, I chose my way. Everything is okay so far. They really admire me too. They tell me every day that they really like what I' m doing, and keep on doing what I' m doing. BL: So you' re pretty independent. KP: That' s exactly what I' m trying to say. I' m a very independent person. BL: I guess a lot of Cambodian kids aren' t very independent, or Cambodian kids that would grow up in a real traditional family. But it sounds like when you were younger you made some decisions. Do you think that was because you were around more American kids, or just because that' s who you were inside, you would be that whether you lived here or in Cambodia? KP: That' s how I am when I was young, I guess when I was growing up. It' s not because I hang around with friends. And I have Cambodian friend, which that' s their problem. If they chose to live with their parents- which is okay if you help. But if you' re going to live with your parents, at least help them pay rent. Some kid they just stay there, just using their parents, which I, if I ever stay with my parents, I probably pay bills and that. The reason why I move out of parents' as soon as I got married, probably a year after. I think after I graduate, I stay with them for three years, and then I move out. It' s not that I move out because I don t want to worry about them, it s just because I want to start my life early, because life is short. You have to have fun and do what you want to do, because you never know, life is very short. I'man independent person, and I chose to move out and start my own family real early when I' m young. I mean, after
KONGPHOK 19 I' m married. I had a baby after my wife and me, we married. My wife - I didn' t never give her a chance to go to school, but I' m working on it right now, to find a good job so she can go to school. It' s not because she' s married, we have kid, it' s not we' re going to stop our life right there. It' s going to be the same. Since we have kid, we have to make plans. We have bills to pay, and we have to make plans step by step. I' m only twenty-four. My wife she' s only twenty years old. She' s young, and she' s not too young to go back to school at all. She has a good job. We have house. We have car. Even though we have that, we still going to have to go get, like I said, degree, some kind of degree. We both can' t do it. One of us have to do it somehow. BL: One at a time. KP: One at a time. Maybe I let my wife do it first. She' s smarter - way smarter than I am, so - BL: So did you finish high school? KP: Yes. We both finished high school. BL: So you graduated, or did you get a GED? KP: I graduate high school. That' s the main goal, no matter what I do, that' s the main goal I have to get for my parents at least. BL: The guys that you were hanging out with in high school, were they Cambodian guys? KP: Vietnamese, most of them. BL: When people would ask you who you were, would you say you were Cambodian or would you say you were Vietnamese? KP: I would say I m Cambodian.
KONGPHOK 20 BL: I've heard that sometimes kids would kind of- because people from the- KP: Yeah, who they- BL: - like Americans, they wouldn' t know. KP: Yeah. BL: You know, they might not know the difference. KP: Oh, I would say I 1 m Cambodian. They' d have some people like Cambodian not speak Vietnamese and stuff, but they kind of think I' m Vietnamese anyway, but I always say I' m Cambodian. I never lie where I' m from or where I am. BL: Did you feel proud of where you were from or was that hard in high school? KP: I'm very proud of where I am, and high school, even though lot of picking going around and stuff, but I never let down like, oh, I' m not Cambodian, I' m something else, or I'm not Asian. What they don' t understand when they call ~ this might be a little racial, but what they don' t understand, you know, like they not only like American kids, they 11 call us Chinese or Chink or whatever. They don' t realize, Chinese, Chink, Vietnamese, Laos, Vietnamese, they are two different thing. We' re not Chinese. We might look the same, but if you look, really look at it, we are different a little bit, you know, the way we look. It always one name that they use is Chink, which to me it really bother me. I even had a fight in school because of that too. I mean, I went to my counselor, Dr. Pember [phonetic], and she lecture me about how life is. When I was young I became the student of my teacher, Adjan, and he teach me. He taught me a lot how life is and stuff, and how respect, discipline. I think without him I probably end up-1 don' t know how my life is. I learn how to respect elders, how to control myself, my temper, and what to do when I' m really frustrated. You know, just have to have
KONGPHOK 21 relax feeling. He taught me a lot of those when I was young. I became a monk for three months. He taught me a lot. I' m very, very thankful for him to teach me all those. (Inaudible)-- BL: How old were you when you it was you became a Novice? KP: Oh, I can' t remember. I think I was fifteen. PSS: Twelve, thirteen. KP: Twelve, fifteen - twelve, something like that. BL: So I were in monk for three months like in the summertime? KP: Yeah, for the summertime. BL: So tell me what your day would be like when you were a monk? What did KP: Well, he did this to teach us in a way. Every morning we 11 go with him, do a little ceremony- pray. After that, we' 11 work. We' 11 wake up early in the morning. He' 11 try to wake us up in the morning, because we couldn' t wake up. He' 11 knock on the door, bang on something. He' 11 wake us up and we' 11 go. You see this temple right here, most of it is trees and stuff, wood and forest. We' 11 go and cut it down. And we' 11 work until lunchtime, until our only lunch. And we' 11 eat. At that time I wasn t used to it. I wasn' t used to one lunch. You have to eat, like really eat. I usually eat two or three time a day. You have to really fool yourself, and can' t be shy when you eat. You have to eat, because that's the only time you can eat. After that, you go back to work, I guess. And some monk will go and take a nap, which I know my teacher wouldn t like that, but I did rest some too because my first time work because I wasn' t used to it, and after that we' 11 work and stuff. There' s a lot of discipline going on. And you know, to me, I think I
KONG PHOK 22 was a bad monk, but he forgive me. He teach me and stuff. And every day I still remember that, and I wouldn' t forget about it, because without him, without my parents, I don' t know where I' m at. The reason where I'm at right now, having good family, having good life is because of them, so I won' t forget that. BL: Did your parents want you to come live at the temple, or was that a decision you made? KP: Come to be a monk? BL: Uh-huh. KP: Well, you can say both ways. I want to have experience as a monk. In our country, you be a monk, and like that, you call it repaying the respect to your parents, or giving your parent respect, because being a monk is so much different from being like you and me, you know, like regular person. It's so much rules, so many rules you have to follow. It' s not easy to follow. I just want to have that experience. I' m a type person like in job and everything too, and I like to have a lot of experience, learn more. That' s the only way to learn more, to have more experience. I try and for first month I thought it was very hard and stuff. I think, first because of the food because only one day that you can eat. And the second is just was very, very hard and like I say, there' s so many different rules that you have to follow. I' m not used to that. It took me at least a month and a half or so to follow him. I break some discipline, but I was taught, I was punished. Being punished taught me a lot. Adjan, he taught me a lot, and I would never forget that too. One thing I won' t forget was like when I was a monk it was like six seven of us, and we became a monk. And I have- BL: Was it for the summer, during school? KP: Yeah, for some monk, they will extend more than summer because they out of
KONGPHOK 23 high school. Because I was still in school- they were out of school, and they' 11 extend like another three months or so. But you have to have at least a week or so, if you' re going to be a monk- I mean, not really. It can be a day or whatever. But I chose three months, my whole summer. BL: So you didn' t leave even though it was hard? KP: No, I did not give up. Like I say, it was hard, but I did not give up. I don' t give up easily. BL: It doesn' t sound like it. KP: Uh-huh. BL: So after you graduated from high school, by this time, by the time you were in high school, were your parents doing better? I mean, you said your mom was starting to work. Had they adjusted to the United States, do you think? KP: Yes. At the time I was in high school, everything was real, I mean, not perfect, but okay. We can support ourselves right now. Back then we were living off like Lutheran Family Services. Now, when I was high school, that was long already long ago before we- - you know how Lutheran Family Services help us, give certain amount of money to buy food and stuff? We were long away from that and in high school, my family- when I was in high school my family, dad was working. I think mom was working for a couple years. When she had me in her stomach or whatever, she fell down and broke her ankle and stuff. Right now she' s still going to the hospital. I take her every three months or so, go see the doctor about her knee and stuff. Her knee is very bad, and they won' t let her work. But still she go and try and find another job, because in order to support the family, we have to have two incomes. Sister is just working part time to buy clothes and stuff for her and
KONG PHOK 24 for us. And she worked there for a couple years, and the company closed down. She try to work in a seafood place for a couple months, but her pace was so slow because of her leg and stuff. I think they not fire her but just giving her a hint. So I just told her, I guess they' re just saying that you' re moving too slow and you' re not getting the job done. And she just stop worked a couple months. That' s when my sister was thinking about working full time. I guess at that time, Dad was still working two jobs. But this time he found a better job, not a janitor, work at Gilford Mills, and plus he work in a restaurant. He was making pretty good money, but long hour. I hardly see my dad. I remember me and my brother used to be like- he would get off like 11:00,11:30 he' 11 get home after his second job. And we' 11 wait for him, you know, just to see him before we go to school and stuff, because I mean, he worked from day until night. He been doing that for almost seven years, support him. That' s why I would never forget that, and I will try to be like him, you know, I mean, working hard. I mean, working hard is good, but there' s other way you don t have to work hard to get money and stuff. It' s like go to school and get a good job. I mean, but working hard does pay bills. He showed it to me that working hard pay bills. He did prove to me. He pay off the house, the cars and stuff. He doesn' t speak English, not even a bit- probably he know how to say yes or no. I'm very proud of my dad a lot. And he work at Gilford Mills and stuff. I work in Gilford Mills too, but different plant, which I don' t work there no more. But it'sa lot of computers, a lot of thing you have to do with computer and a lot of machine control, manual control that in English. I just couldn' t believe he been there for ten years now, and supervisor love him and all that. I just couldn' t believe how he understand the computer and stuff, which he never go to school. I' m very proud of him. I just couldn' t do it. I work at Gilford Mills, and I'm a lead
KONG PHOK 25 person, like a supervisor over there. And I seen a bunch of people, which is, again, this might sound racial, but Americans who work there, who do not know how to start a computer up or reset the computer. But I never see my dad done it, but if he can stay there for ten years, he must know something or else he' 11 be gone. They couldn t even like pull a computer or you know, bring down orders, or like read tape measure, you know, and all that. And that will bring me back to my dad, how could he do it? I worry about him because the machine is so big. And in my plant, there was two or three people die in the plant. I just worry about my father, because every day I tell him, don' t work so hard, or don' t work too much overtime. The way I see it, I seen people cut their hand off and stuff, and it' s just - I'm at Gilford Mill and he work at Gilford Mill too. We do the same stuff. I'm just so afraid for him, and I' m very proud of him. He been there for over ten years now, and hasn' t no problem. Has good attendance and everything, and took care of me until I have my own family, even take care of my wedding for me. You know gave some to me to start- - me and my wife to start our life with. I think because where I' m at is all because of my mom and dad. They help me out and they teach me and all that. BL: So what was all the stuff then going on before that when you were hanging out with the bad crowd? What do you think was going through your mind then because it sounds like your parents have made a lot of sacrifices for you and you appreciate that. KP: Yes, because back then- BL: Do you think it had anything to do with how much you really got to see your dad? KP: I have experience with my brother now. I' m teaching him every day. It' s not the parents who tell you and you will follow, it' s if you choose that way. The parent can
KONGPHOK 26 talk whatever they talk twenty-four hour or 'twenty-four, seven.' They can talk whatever they want. If their kid won' t input in their head or want to be that way, chose to be that way, you can't change a kid. I chose to follow my parents' footstep. Because my daddy doesn' t drink, smoke or gamble or anything, and it' s hard to find parents like that. And my dad always, even though he doesn' t know how to speak English and all that, he always give my mom respect. That' s how I' m -1 give my wife respect because I think I want to have a life like him, you know. Dad never I mean, I never ever see them argue physically or mentally, you know, doing something in front of me that to teach me you know, how like some kid, they talk about child, you know, the parents and stuff, divorce and stuff? I never have that in my childhood life. I mean, that' s the reason why I' m having a family too. I' m going to raise my kid the way that my mom and dad were together. And I try to be- my wife, I' m trying to give my wife respect. Like I say, all woman needs some respect from the men. I see my dad, he give Mom respect a lot. I guess that' s the reason why they love each other, even though they don' t show that they love each other, you know, that much like me and my wife do, because they back in the old age or whatever. Never in my life they would say, I love you or whatever, I like you, or whatever, or calling each other like wife or husband or honey or whatever, which me and my wife will always use that phrase all the time, cause that' s how we are. And sometime I' 11 go pick on mom and dad. I will tell them, why you don' t you say that you like dad or say call dad husband or honey or whatever? But you know they just laugh. I mean, my parents are older. I like to make them laugh, because I think thinking too much make your life worry too much, too much stress is not good for you, you know? And sometime I'll go and make them laugh and all that. My parents sometimes they' 11 laugh at me too when me and my wife will call each other
KONG PHOK 27 honey and stuff. But even though they don' t show too much, I know inside they really care for each other. And dad, when he was young, he made mistake too, but everybody make mistake. It' s up to you if you want to change it. BL: Did your parents ever think about leaving North Carolina and taking the family and going to a bigger Cambodian community or anything? KP: Never. They going to live here until their retirement because they think that Greensboro, North Carolina is a very good place to stay. They hardly- to tell you the truth, my brother and sister, we never went to the zoo until we got married, until we know how to drive ourselves or go with our friend. My parents never take us. We never do any of those kind of stuff, never ever. We never even know what Busch Garden is until I got married. Me and my wife but my wife' s side, they always travel, because why? They much younger than my parents. They are much- TAPE ONE/ONE SIDE A ENDS ***** TAPE ONE/ONE SIDE B BEGINS KP: - they' re Americanized too. And like I' m saying, I' m not mad at parents, but we never get to go anywhere like other family do. All we do is just go to school, play in Greensboro. Most of the time I played basketball and have time to just come to temple. But since I got married, never have get any chance. But when I was young, I always come to temple and watch, you know, my teacher. But now I got married, I know he understand too that I have family, you know, [and] work. I have to pay bills and stuff. Which I always tell him, whenever he need me, like today, if he needs me or anything, I' 11 always be here. BL: What do you think they liked about North Carolina? You said they don' t speak
KONG PHOK 28 a lot of English. And a lot of people who have that experience, they want to be just around other people who speak the same language as them. KP: I think they know a lot of family here that from the homeland, and that' s been settled down here for a long period of time. And other thing is that it' s going to be hard to find a job. I think that s the reason why they don' t like to move around so much. They don' t like to move around, I' m talking about injob too. They like to stay in one place or do anything. They just a steady person, my family is - that' s the name to use, they' re very steady, yeah. BL: What about the environment? I know you were talking about how you got to see snow here. And of course, it doesn' t snow in Cambodia, but do you think they like the- KP: The weather. BL: ~ landscape and you know, sort of the generally, is that important to them? KP: Yes. BL: Does your dad go fishing or anything like that? KP: Oh, he went fishing back then when I- but I brother-in-law, he love to fish. We went to fish too. But now he stopped doing that because he' s old. All he think about is sadness. He' 11 come to the temple all the time. He doesn' t go fishing no more since he really put himself into like temple and stuff. He think if he want to eat fish, he' 11 go buy fish. You could say he'sa very religious man. 'Cause the old, they don' t know what else to do but to come to temple and I guess that' s their hobby, their free time is working at~ BL: So having the temple is really important. KP: Yes, very. To me, I' m happy. If I ever have money or temple is going, say, bankruptcy or something wrong, if I ever have is money, I would never let temple disappear,
KONGPHOK 29 because I think it' s good for my parents, because it' s like Cambodian to them. It' s like a Cambodia in America for them. It' s very important, temple, to them. They would do anything to keep temple. And that' s what they do in Cambodia too. They try to build a temple there. They spend so much money. Sometime they don' t care about themselves, you know, to keep some money to themselves, they worry about Cambodia so much. That' s why I help some. If I have some, I help. I just tell them not to spend so much, because like I say, they have family over here and we have is bills to pay too. You know, just help whenever we can. It' s just sometime they help so much. I mean, I see them once they help so much they don' t even have money left to pay the bills and stuff. And that' s improving - BL: So after you got out of high school, what did you do? KP: After I got out of high school, okay. I found me a full-time job. BL: Doing what? KP: Which is Gilford Mills. I was a machine operator. I' d been there for two years, then I got promoted to be a supervisor, a lead person. Right now, the company is closed. I found a job right now. I mean, I' ve been home for two months now. But they' re paying me for severance pay package. I have like a package. They move to Mexico, my company. Right now I found a job which is a good job, but I' m waiting for the answer this week. They' re supposed to let me know by this week. BL: Another mill? A different kind of mill? KP: You can say mill, but it' s like a product company. Have you heard of Olympic Products? BL: What do they make? KP: Carpets, foam and stuff for carpets.
KONGPHOK 3 0 BL: I haven' t heard of them. KP: Like the pads and stuff. BL: But do you would work there running the machine or be a supervisor or - KP: Production manager. Since I have the experience as a supervisor, I always try to because I know how hard it is to be a regular worker. If I be a manager, because I know what kind of person I am, I will be fair, because I have a lot of experience under a supervisor who is like like in Gilford Mills when I was a regular worker, they have a little crew, I mean a little squad. Some squad is hanging around with the supervisor, they always, you know, think about him, take care of them. Like come late, they' 11 take care. I wasn' t in one of those squad, but you know, I feel sorry for others. I don' t know why I get lucky, so lucky, always meet a good person. I meet somebody who always care about me, or you know, never want to harm anything, which my parents always pray every time to let me meet those kind of person and stuff. And I have experience as a regular worker, you know. It' s always crook everywhere. I' m telling you, even though they say, it' s no equal even though the job say it' s equal employment, it' s inside you don' t know. I mean, I seen what it is. We run machines. Though I' ve seen old people, they' 11 work and stuff, and young people, because they know the supervisor, they' 11 stay in the break room so long, let the old people work and stuff. When I got promoted to be a supervisor, I don' t let that happen again. I just tell them, you know, that' s not it. You have to follow the policy. Everybody is the same thing. It' s like you get to work more if you don' t know to supervise. You know what I' m saying? You just work harder than regular other workers. So, since I have the experience, I always like looking for job, I' m always looking in the manager, you know, supervisor position.
KONGPHOK 31 BL: In Gilford Mills, were there a lot of other Cambodians that worked there, or was it a mix of people? KP: In my plant, there was only three Cambodians and a few Indians. In my father plant, which is Gilford Mills too, yes, they have a lot of international people, different people. BL: A lot of different people. When you supervised people, you supervised a lot of different kinds of people? KP: Yes, different. Yeah. BL: Did that ever create any problems for you? KP: Not really, because I treat people the same thing, except that you know, it' s even though when I talk to the Cambodian workers sometime in my own language, they probably think that, oh, you trying to work I do have those workers saying to me, oh, you take care of them because they' re your own kind and stuff, but I don' t do that. But like I say, like my boss tell me, there' s always people trying to make you get mad at them, because they' re trying to make you jeopardize your job. It took me a long time to get that position. I mean, I' m the boss, even though they do that, if I tell them to do it, they have to do it. That' s the main thing. Why would I worry about what they say? I mean, I treat everybody fair. BL: So how long did you work at Gilford Mills, then, before it closed? KP: I worked there for five years. BL: Then they moved the plant to Mexico? KP: Mexico. BL: So they laid you off, but they gave you a severance package?
KONG PHOK 32 KP: Yeah. They did offer me in Mexico. But like I said, I have family here, and I wouldn' t go over there for whatever they give to me, even though gave me a raise to go over there. But I just say- I don' t believe I can' t find a job over here so- which right now, I almost give up, but I have several company calling me, which is a good position too. I' m not giving up yet. It took me two months and I couldn' t find any no respond to anything. That' s when it is hard. I should of taken the package in Mexico and stuff. So right now I' m kind of like lift up a little bit because I have three, four company calling me to have interviews and to offer me those position which is good pay, so I'm not really regret of letting it go. BL: Did you meet your wife when you were in high school? KP: Yes, I met her in high school. BL: Is she Cambodian also? KP: No, she' s Laos. BL: She's Lao. KP: Yeah. BL: Did that create any kind of problems, I mean, going dating a Lao girl, with say, your Cambodian friends or other friends? KP: No. Really, back in the day I was dating, the only girl you could see is Laos. I mean, Cambodia is a good country and all that, but it' s just back then, Cambodian, they follow their parents more than the Laos girl back then when I was dating. That' s the reason why I say my parents was having conflicts between my wife and stuff because she was Laos, and you know, how was Laos girl back then in the day. But that' s back then. But now it' s changed.