Escalating the Interview: Being Mindful of the Slippery Slope Julie Kenniston, MSW, LSW Why do we worry? Impression of being leading or suggestive Might move child too quickly or scare child off Team thinks interviewer is moving too slowly Unsure how to proceed Grasping at straws (maybe even frustrated) Using externally derived information Balancing prosecution and protection Why not just ask??? Did your Uncle Stu touch your privates? NCA n.e.t. 2011 1
The best transitions are Child initiated Non-leading Natural Open-ended Defendable Followed up by narrative inviting questions There are lots of transitions out there Know your protocol or interview model Transition Techniques Use something from the child s narrative Neutrally introduce people, places, or events having to do with the allegation Create a balanced interview Specific prompts Drawings NCA n.e.t. 2011 2
Transition Techniques (child lead) Use the clue (hint the child has given) Ask, Do you know the reason you are/i am here today? What if he says NO????? Ask contextual questions: Explore relationships or events related to concerns Ask about changes in patterns Ex. Used to go to babysitter but doesn t anymore Multiple hypotheses exploration Pay attention: Use the child s words! Examples of Transition Q s Likes/dislikes Relationships/feelings Pets and secrets Routines (waking, sleeping, bathing, eating, etc.) Hygiene, rules on privacy & modesty Discipline and rewards, affection Conversations about interview (concerns or secrets) Safety Body Qs Touching Make Balanced Inquiries Family Qs: What do you like about Mom? What don t you like about Mom? What do you like about Dad? What don t you like about Dad? Relationships How do you get along with? Are there things does that you don t like? NCA n.e.t. 2011 3
Transitions: Feelings Tell me about a time that you were happy. Tell me about a time that you were sad. Tell me about a time that you were mad. Tell me about a time that you were scared. Transitions: Pets and Secrets Pets Is there a time *pet+ made you feel better? Tell me Are there times you worry about *pet+? Tell me What kinds of things do you talk to *pet+ about that you don t tell others? Secrets Do you have secrets? Are there things you aren t allowed to tell *caregiver+? Who tells you not to tell? Are there things you don t want people to know? What will happen if someone finds out? How do you know? Transitions: Routines Routines (morning, after school, night, bathing, etc.) What do you do when you stay up late at night? Ask about where people sleep Who sleeps in your room? Does someone come in your room? Tell me about that. What do you like about *person+ being in your room? What don t you like? What does *person+ do in your room? Who knows about *person+ being in your room? Where is *caregiver+ when *person+ is in your room? *wait for response+ How do you know *caregiver+ is *in that place+? NCA n.e.t. 2011 4
Transitions: Modesty & Privacy Rules What are the rules about the bathroom at your house? Who is allowed in the bathroom when you are in the bathroom? How do you get cleaned up? (shower, bath, other?) Tell me about [bath time]. Who sees you [shower, bathe]? Do people show their bodies in your house? What happens when people show their bodies? Are there different rules for boys and girls? Transitions: Safety Know the school district s safety training Don t use good touch/bad touch unless the child introduces this concept. And even so, be aware of obstacles. What do you know about safety? What do you know about body safety? Are there parts of the body that are private? Tell me about that. What should you do if someone touches your private parts? Transitions: Body Questions What do you know about your private parts? What parts of your body are private? What do you call those parts? Who has one of those? Do [opposite sex] have those? What do they have? Have you ever seen one? Tell me about that. What do [name of body parts] do? Or, what are they used for? Has someone touched your [name of body part]? NCA n.e.t. 2011 5
Specific prompts (when appropriate) Do you know the reason you are here to talk with me? or I am here to talk with you? What is the reason you came to (location of interview)? What did (caregiver) tell you about coming here today? Do you remember what my job is? NICHD Transitions Do you know the reason you are here today? I heard you saw a police officer Someone is concerned about you Think about the model and its focus. Escalation occurs to identify a topic focus. Narrative follows. NCA n.e.t. 2011 6
Lyon create your own structured interview Why do you think I wanted to talk to you today? Tell me why you think brought you to talk with me today? What did [accompanying person] tell you about why I wanted to talk to you? Did anyone [talk to you/tell you anything] about what I wanted to talk to you about? I understand something might have happened. Tell me what happened. Lyon create your own structured interview If there is an observable injury: I see you have [a burn, a cut, a bandage, bruises, etc.] on your. Tell me everything about that. If the child has made a previous statement: I heard you talked to *name+ about something that happened. It s important for me to understand. Tell me what happened. Someone s worried: Is someone *possibly name person who reported] worried about something that happened? Bothered you: I heard someone might have bothered you. Tell me what happened. Something that wasn t right: I heard that someone may have done something that wasn t right. Tell me everything about that. Know Your Role Your use of a transition is dependent on your role. For example, child protection workers shouldn t reveal referral sources. It can be a problem if you invite a question you aren t willing to answer. For example, when stating I heard someone might have bothered you, the child might ask, who told you that? Be prepared with an answer. You also need to be able to defend your transition. NCA n.e.t. 2011 7
Externally Derived Information I understand something happened, you went to doctor, told your teacher something Be very careful about pairing abuse concerns with possible offender! Did Uncle Joe touch your privates? Do not relay exactly what reporter has said child told them. I heard you told your mom that Uncle Joe tickled your privates. Using Drawings as a Transition Interviewers should invite narratives and have the child practice narratives before using drawings as a transition. Interviewers should know the pros and cons of using drawings (both preprinted and freehand). Process for Using Body Drawings Introduce them into the interview Know their purpose and use them accordingly (Body parts? Gender identification? Clarification?) Don t ever interrupt a narrative with drawings. Watch that pointer. Be neutral and explore hypotheses. 24 NCA n.e.t. 2011 8
Introducing Drawings I am going to draw a picture. When you know what it is, tell me what it is. I am going to draw a picture of a body. I need you to help me name the parts on the body. I have a drawing of a girl with all her body parts and I want you to help me name the parts. I have two pictures here. Which one is the boy and which one is the girl? Which one is most like you? 25 Drawings as a Body Map Head to toe, front and back Point and ask, what is this part? Repeat child s word and write it. Don t skip around. Keep your tone consistent. Decide how you want to identify gender. This will dictate if you use two drawings or one. Names and functions? 26 Assessing Gender After Naming Parts on Same Sex Drawing If interviewing a girl, point to private area on the drawing and ask, Do boys have *use child s word for girl s private area+? If child says, no. Ask, What do boys have? *wait for response+ Have you seen a boy s *use child s word+? Tell me about that. Vice versa for a boy. If child says, yes follow up with, Tell me about that. If child asks you to draw the opposite gender, make a quick drawing and move on. NCA n.e.t. 2011 9
Questions to Use with Drawings *use child s name for parts! What is this part used for? Or What does this part do? Who has one of these? Have you seen one of these before? Tell me about Are there parts of your body that are private? Which parts of the body are private? What do you know about your private parts? Are people allowed to touch/see your privates? Follow up inquiries. What are the rules about your privates? Has someone ever touched your? Tell me about Transition: Drawings Some options: After naming body parts, ask child, Are there parts of your body that are private?... Point to those parts. What do you call that part? What do you know about your private parts? What do you use your *child s word+ for? or What does your *child s word+ do? Are there rules about your *child s words, or use the word privates +? Tell me about the rules. Are there parts of your body that you get hugs? Kisses? Tickles? Are there parts of your body that you don t want someone to touch? Be sure to ask balanced questions. Assessing the Touch of Others We ve talked about touches that you get. Now let s talk about the touches you give or have to give other people. Have you (hugged, tickled, spanked, kissed, hit) someone? Tell me about [that]. Have you touched someone else s private parts? Has someone made you touch their private parts? Tell me about Are there adults or big kids that want you to touch their privates? Tell me about NCA n.e.t. 2011 10
Assessing Touch of Others (cont.) "Is there someone who wants you to [kiss, tickle] them? Where on their body does want you to *tickle, kiss+ them? Tell me about " Is there someone who wants you to touch their private parts (or use word child has already told you, if child has done so)? Who wants you to touch their private parts? What does want you to touch their *use child s word for body part+ with? Tell me about " Witnessing Others Touching We ve talked about touches you give other people, now let s talk about other people touching. Do you see other people (hugging, tickling, spanking, kissing, hitting, touching privates)? Tell me about *that+. Questions and Problem Solving NCA n.e.t. 2011 11