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1 Page 1 of 16 Print Page Close Window Rivet Punch & Die Tooling Printed from: mylargescale.com Forums Topic URL: Printed on: 30 Jan 2006 Topic: Topic author: maculsay Subject: Rivet Punch & Die Tooling Posted on: 29 Jan :58:07 Message: After reading all about rivet punching/rivet head embossing, or whatever you call it, I ve decided to fabricate some tooling. Using this tool in conjunction with my drill press should help me make perfectly aligned and repeatable rivet punches, and adjustable for the specifics of most any rivet pattern I can anticipate for the 20.3 scale in which I m modeling. The punch & die portion of the tool is patterned after the Vance Bass treatise The Basics of Working with Brass, sub-section titled Rivet-punching found in Chapter 2 of the Steam Class. See Vances article for the punch & die fabrication. The tool s base is hard wood, red oak in my case, with the tool s steel female die attached, but removable. The die is recessed in a routed slot in order for its top surface to be flush with the wood base top. The die is wide enough to include multiple die patterns and rivet sizes. One of the real advantages of having a tool is to get an adjustable guide fence for proper alignment of a row of rivet punches in relation to the edge of your material. Drawing. All of the elements of the tool are easily acquired from you local hardware or building supply store. The cost is under $15 bucks, but could be more if the minimum order length/quantity/size is more than you need.usually always the case. I also substituted different material sizes based on availability. Some steps along the way: Wood base with die plate mount in routed slot. Fence slots marked:

2 Page 2 of 16 Fence & clamping knobs

3 Page 3 of 16 Fence clamping slots routed & fence mounted:

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5 Page 5 of 16 From the bottom showing wide slot for clamping nut & blind T-nuts: I will be using a set of brass ripping gauges to get precise alignment between the fence and the die s rivet holes. I put a reference hole 3 inches down the die strip. By placing a drill bit in each end of the die strip's die holes makes it a quick & accurate setup. The ripping gauges measure 1/16", 3/32", 1/8", 5/32", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" & 1/2". Since you can stack these together, you can get a max of 1 15/32". I'll have to make some wider guages, but I'll do this as needed. For fabrication of the rivet punching die: I started by drilling couple of test 1/16 holes in my die

6 Page 6 of 16 material (hardware store steel)...i couldn t get more than 2 holes drilled with each drill bit before it broke. I bought the titanium drill bits by Bosch, which claim to last 6X longer. I expect that I m applying too much pressure too fast with my drill press. Bought some cobalt drill bits today and was much more successful. Anyway, I clamped a fence on my drill press table to get an aligned set of die holes. I used an Incra Ruler and a scriber to get an accurate, repeatable distance between the holes. I'll be needing rivets on 1/8" and 1/4" centers and I threw a 1/2" spacing set of die holes while I was at it...here's the resulting die: You will notice one hole some 3 inches down the die to the right end of the die. This will be used to assist in accurately lining up the fence by using the fence guides, mentioned earlier. In my specific Ruby modification, I ll be needing 1/16 rivet heads for my saddle tank, boiler jacket and bunker spaced on 1/8 centers. The bunker also needs 5/64 rivet heads spaced at ¼ centers where it attaches to the cab frame. I m using.005 brass shim material. So, following Vance s calculation rivet head dia. (2 times the thickness of the metal you ll be punching) = diameter and height of the punch (2 x.005 ) =.0525 for the 1/16 rivets and.0781 (2 x.005 ) =.0681 for the 5/64 rivets. In thinking about how to cut down the end of the ¼ brass rod leaving a.0525 dia. cylinder protruding from the end, I decided to mount my Craftsman Rotary Tool with its right angle attachment into my drill press vise with the cutter facing straight up. Luckily, the right angle attachment itself has parallel sides so that a firm grip can be achieved in the vise. I didn't secure the vise to the drill press table as I would do normally. NOTE!! this is a unorthodox setup, please use extreme caution if you decide to use it.

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8 Page 8 of 16 The trick is to get a proper vertical positioning of the cutter tool. I had to try the vertical positioning a couple of times to get a cylinder with parallel sides. I used a 5/16 dia. high speed straight sided cutter. It also has a cutting surface on its end so that it achieved a very smooth cut at the end of the rod. I chucked up a 3 long piece of ¼ dia. brass rod in my drill press for the punch. I turned on the drill press and the rotary tool and slowly slid the vise into the spinning rod.wow!!...the cutting went really fast to my surprise!! As advised in Vance s write-up on rivet punching, I used the file to shape the resulting cylinder into a hemispherical protrusion. As mentioned earlier, setting up the rivet tool requires the fixing of the tool's fence a consistent distance from the die holes all along the die. I placed a 1/16" drill bit (I have plenty of broken bits) into the first die hole and then in the one on right end of the die.

9 Page 9 of 16 Then by using a spacer, in this case I used a leftover piece of the 1/2" wide steel. I will be using a set of ripping gauges.

10 Page 10 of 16 The protrusion at the end of the punch turned out to be too long and not actually cylindrical, so the punch went right through the brass. After some more filing, I got acceptable rivet heads. I also made a centering tool that's chucked up into your drill press which will center the punch in the first die hole. Now by clamping down the tooling base to the drill press table top, the punch should be right on the mark. If the punch is off center, it will cut through one side of the rivet indentation.

11 Page 11 of 16 So here's some of the results, including some of the punched thru rivets:

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13 Page 13 of 16 In the picture above, the indexing die holes can be clearly seen...this really works well. You just move the rivet indentation you just made in the first die hole into the adjacent die hole and again gently lower the punch until the flat surface of the punch rod presses against the metal, then release, and so on. Besides breaking drill bits early on, I found that the scale on my dial caliper was not precise enough, so this looked like a good excuse to get a new digital direct reading caliper, which I did. I'm thinking about getting a Pitsburgh cross slide vise from Harbor Freight. Securing vise to the drill press table and then using the feed cranks to move the cutter into the rod should produce a smoother cut and require less filing. Except for a coat or two of clear gloss polyurethane on the wood base, I think this rivet tooling is done. All comments and suggestions will be appreciated. Replies: Reply author: Torby Replied on: 30 Jan :14:08 Message: All's you need is an indexing gadget to help get the spacing even.

14 Page 14 of 16 Reply author: Paul Norton Replied on: 30 Jan :13:14 Message: Very nice work Howard! I bought a cross slide vise on sale. Unfortunately because of its height, it does not leave room under my 8 inch drill press to do any useful work. Sigh! Is there a scale on each of the handles of the Harbor Freight vise to measure the travel? I went to take a picture of a scale on my cross-slide vise, but the left-handed Gremlins must have taken it. I say left-handed because they ve swiped the left glove of every pair I own. I can understand swiping a glove, but a cross-slide vise. Sheesh! I notice you use an Incra Ruler and a machinist s scribe. Great way to obtain better accuracy! Have a look in the hobby shops for the awl pictured below. It has a much finer point than a machinist s scribe and fits in the notches and slots of the Incra Ruler. I bought a 12 inch Incra Ruler from Lee Valley Tools many years ago, buy they no longer list them. I guess most people felt that $25 was way too much for a 12 inch ruler. I was reluctant to pay the price, but glad I did. The improvement in accuracy is incredible! Do you know of a company, preferably with a web site, that still sells them? Attention anyone in the Dallas, Texas! Is the Taylor Design Group, makers of the Incra Ruler, listed in the Dallas phone book? Can you post their web site, or failing that their telephone number for me? Thanks! Reply author: maculsay Replied on: 30 Jan :49:43 Message: Torby...the indexing scheme I used works well and is part of Vance Bass' write-up on "Fabricating a Rivet Punch & Die" I refered to early in my post. Since I wasn't too clear on how this worked, I've modified my post to explain it better. Thank you for the input. Reply author: maculsay Replied on: 30 Jan :45:14 Message: quote: Originally posted by Paul Norton

15 Page 15 of 16 I bought a cross slide vise on sale. Unfortunately because of its height, it does not leave room under my 8 inch drill press to do any useful work. Sigh! Is there a scale on each of the handles of the Harbor Freight vise to measure the travel? Paul...The Harbor Freight vise does have indexing scales, but pretty crude, so I haven't attempted to use them. I bought their 4" cross slide vise and it is 5 1/4" tall, if that helps?. Luckily I have a floor stand type drill press, so I have all the clearance I need. quote: I went to take a picture of a scale on my cross-slide vise, but the left-handed Gremlins must have taken it. I say left-handed because they ve swiped the left glove of every pair I own. I can understand swiping a glove, but a cross-slide vise. Sheesh! Oh my, sorry about your loss...the thieves must be only using the right-side of their brains quote: I notice you use an Incra Ruler and a machinist s scribe. Great way to obtain better accuracy! Have a look in the hobby shops for the awl pictured below. It has a much finer point than a machinist s scribe and fits in the notches and slots of the Incra Ruler. The scribe I use has a point the protrudes through the Incra Ruler's holes only 1/32 of an inch. Barely enough for metal work, but I'll keep my eye's out for the hobby version. quote: I bought a 12 inch Incra Ruler from Lee Valley Tools many years ago, buy they no longer list them. I guess most people felt that $25 was way too much for a 12 inch ruler. I was reluctant to pay the price, but glad I did. The improvement in accuracy is incredible! Do you know of a company, preferably with a web site, that still sells them? Try Amazon.com at Boy, these guys really have lots of great measurement tools. In fact, I have some other Incra tools, that I forgot about until you mentioned their name...an Incra Gauge, an Incra Fence System, & an Incra Jig. These tools all measure and increment down to as little as 1/32 of an inch, plenty small enough for modeling type work. Appreciate your comments and input. mylargescale.com Forums : mylargescale.com / Model Railroads Online, LLC

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