Joint Venture Secrets

Joint Venture Secrets by Terry Dean & Fred Gleeck Business Systems 2000, all rights reserved No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, mechanical or electronic, including photocopying and recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from author or publisher. Published by: Business Systems 2000 2747 South County Road 600 East New Castle, IN 47362 U.S.A. http://www.bizpromo.com Terry@bizpromo.com OBLIGATORY LEGAL NOTICE: While all attempts have been made to verify information provided in this publication, neither the Author nor the Publisher assumes any responsibility for errors, omissions, or contrary interpretation of the subject matter herein. Any perceived slights of specific persons, peoples, or organizations is unintentional. This publication is an information product, and is not intended for use as a source of legal, accounting, or tax advice. Information contained herein may be subject to varying national, state, and/or local laws or regulations. All users are advised to retain the services of competent professionals for legal, accounting, or tax advice. The purchaser or reader of this publication assumes responsibility for the use of these materials and information, including adherence to all applicable laws and regulations, federal, state, and local, governing professional licensing, business practices, advertising, and all other aspects of doing business in the United States or any other jurisdiction in the world. No guarantees of income are made. Publisher reserves the right to make changes. If you can=t accept these terms, kindly return product. The Author and Publisher assume no responsibility or liability whatsoever on the behalf of any purchaser or reader of these materials. NOTE: This manual is a transcription of an audio presentation. Spoken language is never the same as written language. Spoken language is always more fluid than the langua ge of written literature. As such, you ll find the normal idiosyncrasies of the spoken language Sentences interrupted by other thoughts ideas that may not be completed to their literary end repeated words, etc. 1

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Joint Ventures How To Create, Nurture and Grow Million Dollar Alliances for Any Internet Business, Product or Service Joint Venturse Tape 1 - Side 1 Section One: You Can t Just Throw Money at the Internet Fred: Hi folks, Fred Gleeck here with Terry Dean and we re talking about Joint Ventures and Joint Venturing online. Terry, we have to assume here like we always do when we do one of these series is that people might not know who you are. Now, I know that s hard to imagine given the fact that we were looking online the other day at http://www.googlefight.com in which we found that Terry was mentioned online about 667,000 times. But quickly Terry, before I introduce myself to the group, let s have them hear who you are and what your background is real quick, again assuming they know nothing. Terry: Well, we can go back and start at the beginning. What I am now is an Internet Marketing Consultant and part of my business is that I can take any business and make it more successful online. Fred: Any business? Terry: Any business. I have high priced consulting. There s no debate about that. I charge a thousand bucks for an hour of consulting for someone. But that s because I guarantee that anyone who pays for that hour, I can increase their profits by at least ten times or they get their money back. It s real common for me to actually go to a web site and jump their profits by that much in just a few minutes. But what I started from we have to go back to the beginning. I started as a pizza delivery driver over six years ago. I was delivering pizzas for Little Caesar s for $8 an hour, which was their guaranteed payment. You get paid minimum wage plus tips and if you didn t make enough tips, you got $8. Fred: And you didn t. Terry: I never got enough tips so I always made $8. (Laughs) There were times I came back and had less tips than I actually was supposed to have. Fred: Their tip to you was to find another business. 4

Terry: And we had over $50,000 in debt. We had over 13 credit cards that it was on. Our only real asset at the time was a minivan. We lived in a rental house, my wife and I and we paid $340 a month for it. And a lot of our debts came from the stupidity of being young. I m 29 so we re going back to when I was 21 and 22 making all these bills, buying things I didn t need. I actually tried everything you can imagine. I had tried network marketing, I had tried direct selling, and I had tried to be a salesperson. For example, another one of my jobs was selling satellite dishes from door to door which didn t last long because I never sold a single one the whole time I was working. (Laughs) Fred: So, what turned it around? What was the turning point? Terry: The big turning point for me was when I had heard about the Internet, I had heard about all the people who were making money online. Even back then it was the big thing, seeing how the Internet was the new wave. So I went out and bought myself a computer. Fred: What year was this by the way? Terry: This would have been just over six years ago, so it would be in 1995-1996. And it was a 75 megahertz Pentium, so you could see how long ago that was. That was the top of the line computer. And I just basically started training myself and seeing what people were doing online. And in a few months I was actually earning a full-time living online selling products from other people. I had started my business by selling information products such as CD ROMs and videos that I got from other people. And in six months, I was making a fulltime living. But, again that wasn t a whole lot. I built from there and the big thing that really took off and started making me a lot of business was when I learned about building an Opt-In email list and really building relationships. Fred: Excellent. And for those of you who don t know me, and it might be a few more than don t know Terry because I ve been primarily an offline marketer, my name is Fred Gleeck. That s Fred G-l-e-e-c-k and my information, always easy to reach me at 1-800- FGLEECK or http://www.fgleeck@aol.com. I have an unusual background in that I was born and raised overseas, came to the United States and my parents wouldn t pay for me to get my degree in theater, so I got all the way through with a Masters in International business and moved to New York City where I promptly got fired by five major Fortune 500 companies in a row. Proving conclusively I should be self-employed because no one would keep me on because I just hated working for someone else. 5

So I tried to figure out a way that I could do both, sort of a theater kind of thing and do something in the business field. So, I came up with doing business Seminars. So, for the last 17-18 years now I ve done over 1,350 one-day seminars for the public. One of my preferred things I do is I m really a Specialist in helping to create products like we re doing here today and I m also good at delivering Seminars and promoting Seminars. So, that s my thing. One of the reasons why I asked Terry to come in here and talk about this topic today is that joint ventures are really crucial to online success. And I think that it s so important that people understand and Terry, we should really start with the idea of you can t just sort of throw money at the Internet anymore and make a living. Terry: If you look at the past with the dot com bust and all the companies that went out of business, that s exactly what they tried to do. They just came online and they thought of the Internet as exactly the same medium as offline where you spend a lot of advertising and then you bring back a ton of profits. It s a big mistake to go at the Internet thinking it s the same as advertising offline because there are some major differences. And just think about it in this terminology. When we talk about the Internet, more than anything else, it s a network. It s a network of computers one to another. That s how the whole Internet is set up. There s no main hub anybody could attack. Its one system hooked up to another system hooked up to another. And it s the same thing. If you want to market online you have to network, one person to another; its one business hooked into the other one hooked into another one, and nobody online is an island where they re off by themselves and running a business by themselves. Fred: Because we re all interconnected. Terry: We re all interconnected and that s how you have to do your business online. That s exactly why we need to talk about joint ventures. If you understand these key principles of how to do joint ventures and how to contact the right people, then you could basically set up and grow your business as big as you want just by contacting and dealing with the right people. Fred: Wouldn t you use an analogy similar to the fact that people who are using pay-perclick search engines, for example, to drive people to their sites. They re paying money for that as opposed to if you were the kind of person that went out and sort of networked with a whole lot of people that you could say, Hey, come to my place or my store, whatever it is, and you would be doing it through word of mouth. Terry: It s similar. We re talking about joint ventures, it s similar to word of mouth and we ll talk about pay-per-clicks later and exactly what purpose it is. But here s the disadvantage of something like that. 6

Online, there s a great limitation on just how big you can get doing pay-per-click. There are only certain key words that you can buy that you re going to be able to profit from and there s only a certain amount of how high you can bid. With joint ventures, there really is no limitation, and any person who s been online for any amount of time will begin to see that they have a different attitude. In my business, even people selling products that are almost the exact thing, say people who sell information products on Internet marketing are not my competitors, they re my future joint venture partners. Fred: Right. So, in other words, it used to be you d look at people and they were doing the same things you are and you d sort of want to just not tell them anything or not share anything with them. But in this case you re doing exactly the opposite. You re partnering with them. Terry: You re partnering with them and the reason is that they have a group of customers who are going to be interested in my product and service and I have the same; and what we have to do is just find ways where we can share profits back and forth and it makes all of us more powerful and more profitable. Fred: Probably the best way to go at this is to give people some real specific examples of how you use joint ventures to sort of illustrate this. Terry: Here are some joint ventures I ve done that show you some examples and we ll probably cover many, many dozens on these tapes, but here are a few to start with. One joint venture I gave was (this was another individual who actually set this one up) a man came to me who had a small opt-in list. He had about 3,000 subscribers at that time, I had about 20,000. And he came to me with an idea. He said, I ve looked around Ezines and there s five Ezines that are really top notch on marketing information and yours is one of them. And you have a really good reputation. So he said, What I want to do is I want to write an article recommending all these five Ezines and I want to write it under your name with you signing it because everyone knows you more. He was the principal. He went to all five people and everyone agreed to run the article. So, all five Ezines ran the article recommending all five Ezines and every single one of us increased by over a thousand subscribers just in a few days. My actual net was over 1,500 that I brought in. Everybody s probably was a little bit different on the exact numbers, but that s a pretty good bump which costs no out of pocket expense for anybody. And let s actually go even further. The person who set up the whole deal was someone with the smallest Ezine of the whole bunch. Fred: Here s the devil s advocate position on that Terry. Some people might say, well, but now if you re taking your customers and sharing them with someone else, then they 7

have less money to spend on your products because they might spend it on someone else s. Terry: Well, that s really a myopic approach if we re going to use a word for it. Because your customers are already spending money on other people s products and services and too often you re going to be limiting in your mind what they re buying. Let s take for example a book. If you love golf, how many books on golf do you have? Fred: A lot of them. Terry: A lot of them. Are they all by the same author? Fred: No. Terry: They re by all different kinds of authors and you would have bought them irregardless of anybody recommending them to you or not. Wouldn t it be much better to somehow get a share in the profits when you recommend the others? Fred: I think that s a good point. I think that that clears it up for me and probably for people listening on tape, as well. What s another example of a joint venture? Terry: This is one I found myself recently right after I did that one. There was certain advertising that was working really well, advertising in some large Ezines, advertising by pay-per-click, and advertising by banners. It was giving me a good number of subscribers, but it was more costly than I wanted to spend for it. So, what I did was I contacted five publishers and said, Okay, I got this, it s running decently, what I want to do is each of you put in a share of the money, say for every thousand dollars that is spent, you put in $200, you put in $200 and you put in $200, and I m going to have it so someone subscribes to all six of our Ezines. And you notice what I just did by this - is that I m not putting in anything because I m doing the work. And over a period of time about a month, we all added 15,000 subscribers to each of our Ezines. Fred: And the offline equivalent of that would be a co-op mailing. Terry: It would be a co-op mailing that people do together. So, we did the same thing online. Just think about it, 15,000 subscribers in just over a month at zero cost to me. And every one of them basically got five times the value for what they were spending and putting into it. Fred: And you were the promoter being the sixth person didn t pay anything because it was your idea and you put it all together. Great idea. Okay, give me another one. 8

Terry: This one happens a lot. This isn t just one example. I ve done this a good 100, 200, or 300 times just in my own business. This was with an Ezine publisher. I have a membership that we charge $19.95 a month for. Fred: Where can people find that? Terry: They can find that web site at http://www.netbreakthroughs.com. It s just one word with no spaces in it. Fred: http://www.netbreakthroughs.com. T-h-r-o-u-g-h-s. Terry: Yes, and that s $19.95 per month and basically that site is where I show a lot of my ad results, actual results of ads, what worked, and what didn t work so people get ideas for their own. There was an Ezine publisher who has three large Ezines, had about 70,000 subscribers at the time, and I went to him and basically told him, I ll give you 50 percent of the profits on the first month, so anybody who signs up you get half of the money on the first month, and then 35 percent of the money every month after that for as long as they stay a member. He wrote up an email, and this was actually kind of interesting because his specific Ezine, I had just run an ad in it and the ad didn t work. So, he actually got a low review in the Ezine. So, he wrote up a little endorsement to his list saying that he loved my site. Actually, his email started off, This guy makes me mad. Usually I don t write an email and endorse somebody who makes me mad. But this is a site that you should take a look at. Basically he started off with a negative in his email and telling them that even he would tell you to go look at the site. And he sent out the email to his list. We had over 115 people who signed up immediately for the http://www.netbreakthroughs.com site through that. So, he got himself a nice check for the first month and then every month after that, he continued to get a check and that produces a good income for me, as well. Fred: Is that oftentimes the case in joint ventures where somebody gets this residual income, every month they get paid? Terry: There are a lot of ways to set up joint ventures and we ll talk about different methods for it. I like residuals where I continually get paid. But sometimes you just go for a big profit at times. Other joint ventures I ve done we just had a one time payment and we might have earned between $10,000 and $50,000 at one time. Once in where he had 115, the actual front money was smaller but he s gotten over $1,000 every month since then and that s been over a year ago and that becomes good money for both him and I because it cost me nothing. And my ad didn t pull well in his Ezine, but when he endorsed it 9

Fred: It was a different thing. Terry: It was a completely different thing. Fred: So, what I understand then is there are lots of different ways to structure these joint ventures. Terry: There are a lot of ways to structure, and that s part of what we re going to do in this segment. We re going to tell you all the different ways, the different methods that worked in my own business and that I ve consulted with people on so they should get the idea what will work for you. There is no single model that works for everybody in this. But if we give you ten different ideas, you re going to be able to pick and choose and test it and you re going to find ones that are just amazing in what they do for your business. Fred: Now, what about this concept of free money? Terry: Here is another joint venture that I can add with it. Ted Ciuba, who is another marketer, which you would probably consider a competitive marketer for me, came to me and he said, I have this book. We sell it for $19.95. And he says, I ll send you over as many cases as you want free if you want to just send it out, give it to your customers who buy a product from you. I said, Sure. And we set up a deal. In the back of his book, he has a sales letter for one of his products that sells for $500 and we each split 50/50 of the profit from that. And then each order that came in, when we shipped out our product I put one of his books in it, which was a nice soft cover book like you buy in the bookstore and we started to generate a lot of back end sales from that book for both him and I. For my business, it cost me nothing because I just had the book, just put it in with a product that s already going out and it brought in a lot of profit for me. For him, it generated a lot of customers he would have never had that he also generates into his business just from me inserting the book. And what s the cost of getting a book published? Fred: Now, in a case like that, who gets the order? Does he get the order or do you get the order? Terry: In that case, I had it where the order came into me for tracking methods. And a lot of times you can do it either way with the actual person doing the endorsement gets the order or the person who s getting endorsed and actually has the product taking their money. Either way it works as long as it can be tracked well. 10

Fred: Now, this brings up the issue of trust, obviously. I mean you have to feel comfortable with the people you re dealing with because there s a certain amount of trust involved because they don t know how many orders you re getting. Terry: There s always a certain amount of trust involved. But in a deal like that where I take the money and he fulfills the order, there isn t much to be involved in. I put his book in with the product. No matter how many orders I take, they re not going to get fulfilled unless I give them to him and tell him exactly who to send it to. Fred: Got it, perfect. Now, here s my question then. Did Ted in this particular case have to print up certain specific kinds of books with that offer for you guys in there? In other words, were those books printed specially for your customers or was it an insert of some sort? Terry: That is a really good question for this. Fred: Thank you. Terry: And for that occasion (which I m glad you asked so people can get information) we took the offer. He didn t have any special printing. That would have added a lot of cost to that whole situation. What we did was, we inserted a little insert where if they bought through me they got extra bonuses. It said to contact me if they wanted these extra bonuses and we just stuck it in with the book right back in the sales letter. Fred: So, it s almost like a little card inside a book. Terry: We just had an 8 ½ x 11 sheet and we had to fold it in half and we got a large number of people who ordered and he had several people who called. Several people called and said, I m ordering from Terry Dean s offer, but there were actually a couple of orders he still got that we took credit for. Fred: Because you needed to fulfill the bonuses. It was your bonuses. That is a good check and balance system for doing that. So, before you start marketing and doing these kinds of joint ventures, you ve got to make sure of a few things. What are they? You don t want to go out there sort of half cocked. Terry: You don t want to just run out and start this is the big deal that I have and this happens a lot for customers who come to me for consulting who haven t listened to one of my products or read one of my Ebooks. They ll come to me and say, I want to generate millions of visitors to my web site. I just want you to tell me exactly how to generate millions of visitors. My answer always is, I want to look at your web site first. And after I say, Your web site is not ready for millions of visitors to come to it. 11

Because everyone has this concept that all you have to do is if you generate a thousand visitors, you re just going to make money. You re going to generate a million visitors; you re going to make money. I know lots of web sites who have incredible traffic and don t make a penny because the site s not set up correctly. Fred: So, if I understand you correctly, before you start sending or generating traffic to a site, you want to make sure that the site is ready to do that. What do you mean by being ready? What does that entail? Terry: There are several principles that I always follow with that. Number one is the site needs to be set up for one primary purpose and for my businesses and everybody I consult with there s only two primary purposes that are possible. Number one is they actually are selling a specific lead product. I want them to buy this product when they come to my web site, and that needs to be in the web site designer s mind when he designs the web site. Fred: He or she, by the way. Terry: He or she, they need to be selling this product. That s principle number one. The other possibility is you want to be clicked in an opt-in email, saying okay, I want somebody to come here and request more information from me specifically and that s the whole goal for anybody that comes here. A goal of a web site is not to give away free information, or a whole bunch of free stuff. Fred: But what are all these people talking about? I mean I see them all the time in all these industries where they re talking about, well, you should have a web site and you should be basically selling everything you got, sort of like a big brochure site. Terry: That s a big mistake because what happens is that customers get confused. Fred: And a confused mind always says no. Terry: They always say no and they don t buy anything. They re saying okay, there are a hundred different options. See, here s the principle people are missing is when you go into a store, there are salespeople there who they can ask for help, a person is live helping them right there and then. Online they re not going to know where to go, and even if you had for example an online chat to talk to them or even told them to call in, you re still not going to have the same type of live person-to-person help. Fred: Terry, what you re saying then is there is a big difference between obviously going into a store because you ve got salespeople there versus buying something online where it s a do-it-yourself type of environment. 12

Terry: Exactly, and it s much easier to get confused with all the options. So, every web site that I ve worked with people always set it up so that you have one primary offer. And in many cases you might design a whole new offer for online that s even better than what your usual offer is - that s your lead generating offer. And then after someone buys that, then you show them all the other products you have to sell them. Fred: Boy, let me tell you, there are a lot of people in the various industries that I deal with, and I deal with a lot of different niche markets and I m thinking specifically right now of publishers; they get some really, really bad information in this area. And it s really good to hear this stuff clarified because I think, and I think you d agree, there are a lot of people out there that are giving advice on Internet and Internet marketing who don t know what they re talking about. Terry: Well, there are a lot of people out there who all they do is consulting and it s not on their own money. You know, I ve based my whole business coming from nothing and having to learn what worked, what didn t work Fred: For yourself. Terry: for myself, and I ve made this mistake many times. I ve made a lot of mistakes. So, that s number one; you should have one primary purpose put your best foot forward, your best offer up front. Fred: Okay, what s the second thing? Terry: The second principle is you want your web site to be what we call a direct response web site. Fred: As opposed to what? Terry: As opposed to what we call an institutional type of ad. An institutional web site would be talking about the company, telling you about your company s motto, about your company s slogans, how long you ve been in business, that kind of stuff. Direct response means that we re going to set up your web site for one specific response. You have a goal of getting a response from the person who visits. Fred: Whenever I talk to you, I always notice that you almost use interchangeably the term web site with ad. Why is that? Terry: Well, the reason for that is actually my background, where I came from, I learned and found what worked by studying people in the past who were direct response copywriters and advertisers who sent out mail pieces and direct mail pieces. And applying that kind of information online is where I found success because I tried all kinds of different things. I tried everybody s idea and basically whatever worked is what survived. 13

Fred: So, can I understand and deduce from that that what you re saying is that basically a web site should be an ad online. Terry: It should be an ad online and you should think of it that way. Fred: And for one product only. Terry: For one product only, and you always have a specific purpose. And possibly things that you might want for a direct response would be somebody to order right now something, somebody to call you on the phone right now when they go to your web site, someone to fill out a form and ask for an email subscription or even for something you send them in the mail. But your web site has a purpose of interaction with the customers. You want them to do something. Fred: And the third item would be what? Terry: The third item would be that your web site needs to have something that makes it unique; you need to have a Unique Selling Position and I call it the Unique Web Position - UWP. We ll mention it later. A Unique Web Position, which means that your web site is unique in the marketplace, it has an advantage over other competitors in the market place, something that you offer that s different than anybody else. And you do that online by checking out your competition, going in and visiting their web site and see what they offer, and then talk to customers and see what they also like to have; what are they missing, where can you add in some extra benefits, can you have better customer service, can you have a longer guarantee. Fred: And following along with that, one of the things I d recommend that people do is if they haven t read the book Jumpstart Your Business Brain by Doug Hall, it talks a lot about how to create those USPs and gives you some great information that is very, very related, so you may want to put that on your list of reading materials to go after. Terry: A lot of people think about selling in a vacuum. The Internet is not a vacuum, and one advantage of the Internet is you actually have a whole world audience looking at your web site, but a disadvantage is you have world wide competition going to the same customers, so you always have to have something that makes you a little bit better that you can guarantee. It could be personal service. Fred: Might it be a good idea to actually put that and highlight it on your web site to say something in a box or whatever that says, You will not find this anywhere on the Internet, this particular thing. Can we sort of maybe highlight that USP or does it have to be sort of just hidden in there for people to discover? Terry: A lot of times what I ll do with my customers is we ll work on a headline on the web site, which every web site should have a headline, which is the big, benefit rich 14

statement when you come there. I like to work the USP right into there, right into the headline if at all possible. If it s not possible, then I wouldn t have any front role. Put a big box right off to the side saying exactly what it is; right in the middle of a page, put it in a box saying what you re going to get out of it because too many people hide their unique advantages. Fred: So, then the three things to make sure your web site is ready are: Number one, you have to have one primary purpose of one thing that you re doing which is either selling a product, only one product, or getting people to give you their email address. That would be number one. And Number two is it must be a direct response type of site as opposed to an institutional advertising kind of site. You ve got to be asking for an order. And the third thing is you ve got to have a Unique Selling Position. Would that be right? Terry: Yes. When you do that, then you re ready for what we are going to talk about next. Fred: Good. And it s a great time then to turn the tape over to the other side and we ll keep going. Joint Ventures Tape 1 - Side 2 Section Two: How to Test and Prove Your Ad Fred: Fred Gleeck back with Terry Dean on the flip side of tape 1, side 2 here and we re talking about joint ventures. And we just got through the three things your sight must have before you go out there and try to promote it to anyone, including joint venture partners. And one of the things that you really have got to do in order to create a site and make it work well is to have the copy work. Don t you think, Terry? Terry: Yes. It s vital. Of all the things that I ve learned on the Internet, what we re talking about here in joint ventures, my other big key is the copywriting. Fred: And it s sort of funny because we also have another set of tapes on that specific topic, which is How to Write Effective Web Copy. And if anybody who is listening to this tape wants a set of those tapes, they can certainly call either Terry or myself and get those and really get an idea about how to write the copy well. Let s move on to the next one now. Our next sort of area that we want to do here in the area of joint ventures is to test and prove that your site or your ad works. How do we do that? 15

Test and Prove that Your Site Works Terry: First of all, let s give you the reasoning behind it. We even started off saying you can t just throw money at the Internet and then immediately after that I m telling you that you need to spend a little bit of money to test. The reason for that is that I don t want you to go after joint venture partners, these big deals that come in if your ad isn t going to work, if your web site isn t going to make the sale, if whatever email follow ups you might have isn t going to make the sale. So, I want you to spend time testing it, making sure that your web site makes money before you bring any joint venture partners Fred: Now, why do you have to be so concerned about that? I mean after all they are a joint venture partner and it s not costing you anything. So, who cares? Terry: The reason I care is I care about the relationship with them because I don t want to make money one time. I want to make money with them today, I want to make money with them next month, and I want to make money with them next year. And if I come to them with a web site and let s say I can convince them to do an endorsement of it and we don t get any sales, I m not going to get anything in the future with them. It s not going to happen. Fred: In other words, you ve got to make sure that the site is selling, not just for you but to make sure that you show the joint venture partner that you are a really good legitimate partner that they ll want to deal with again and again in the future. Terry: That s one aspect. The other aspect is I get to go to that partner and tell them what kind of response we re getting; I get to show them it s a proven site. We re closing this many visitors to our web site. When you re a joint venture partner and you re big in a business because I m big in the marketing arena, so I get contacted by a lot of partners. The ones who get my attention are the ones who can give me numbers; they re the ones who can tell me my site is closing 4 percent of the visitors who buy immediately on this product. Fred: In addition to the closing ratio, what other numeric and metrics are you looking for to be able to make a decision? Terry: The other one I always look for is a profit for visitor, which is how much they re earning per site, and that basically talks about how expensive the product is. For example, if someone has a $200 product and 3 percent of the visitors are buying that product, then it s earning $1.50 per visitor. If it was $1,000 product and 1 percent is buying the product, then it s actually making $10 per visitor because those numbers are really important to me. 16

And I ll actually go back to the person and ask them where were these responses generated from, where did the traffic come from so I know how it s going to compare with what I do here. But I usually wouldn t put that in the first contact with someone when I m going to joint venture with them. Fred: But those are the things that you re doing in your head while you re talking to them to try and determine whether or not they would be an appropriate joint venture partner. Terry: And here s someone who almost never gets a joint venture with someone big, and that s someone who says, I have this offer. We re going to make a lot of money. I bet you could make $100,000 to your list. I say, Well, what have the results been so far? And they say, Well, you re the first person I m contacting. That s not going to be one that you re going to do a deal with because you know what? Someone who is big in business, they don t want to be anybody s test dummy. Fred: And not only that, but you don t want to burn your list because how often can you actually make contact with your list? Terry: Well, for someone who does an Ezine, such as I do, which we should mention in here because a lot of people you ll be contacting have Ezines, I make contacts with my list about every two weeks. Some people do it every week, but I don t like to do big endorsements to my list that often. I only like to do big endorsements where I send out an email all by itself endorsing someone else s product about once every three months. Fred: So, let me understand this then. Your Ezine goes out once every two weeks and you do an endorsement like you were just describing, a separate email once every three months, meaning four times a year perhaps. Terry: Yes. And most times when somebody comes to me asking for an endorsement, they ll go in one of my regular emails first with a smaller ad and then I can judge by that response if it s big enough that they re going to get the personal one-on-one endorsement just on their offer. Sending Out Ezines Fred: Are you suggesting then that anybody who is listening to this set of tapes should be sending out their Ezine every two weeks or what determines how often you send it out? Terry: The biggest information on how often you should send out an Ezine is as often as you have something valuable to say. Fred: Do you think it s a good idea to always send Ezines out on the same day? I m meaning to say are you always trying to get exactly every two weeks? People sometimes get to expect it, they want it. 17

Terry: Here s the big key. You send it out to them - the Ezine, whenever you have something to say. And if you follow that as a rule, it s going to end up being a little variable anyway because when you have something to say you actually send out the Ezine. If it came the time where it was a two-week period and I didn t have anything to say, I didn t have anything special that was on my mind that I wanted to tell everybody, then it s going to be another couple of days before one is sent out because I m going to wait until I do have something valuable to say. Fred: So, in other words, it might not be exactly two weeks. It might be somewhat less, somewhat greater than that because it depends on how much you have to say. So, what you re saying is send out an email as often as you have something important to say that would be valuable to your customers. Terry: And the actual how often that is, it could be anywhere I have clients who do it anywhere from three times a week to once a month. Fred: Three times a week, that sounds scary. I mean is that acceptable? Terry: For their list, it s very successful, and it produces the best response and conversions back from their list. Fred: So, if you were answering my questions then directly when I first asked it and before we really discussed it, the answer would be it depends because it could go anywhere from three times a week up to once a month. Terry: Exactly. Fred: Let s talk about how you test and prove that your ad or your web site is working. Terry: These are some of the methods and these will generate quite a bit of income on their own. These are some of the best Internet advertising methods that you can go to. Method number one is to do Ezine advertising. Ezine advertising basically means that you go to these Ezines we ve been talking about and most of them take ads in them. Basically, they have a solo ad which is an email that goes out by themselves or they take sponsor ads, which is an ad that goes on the top of a newsletter or somewhere in the middle, right in the middle of the content is the other place they ll put a sponsor ad. And a lot of them take classified ads, but I avoid those. Those are groups of ads all together. Fred: Don t use classified ads. Terry: Don t use classifieds; use either a solo or a sponsor. A solo is always my first choice if they offer it. 18

Fred: If they offer a solo ad, opt for that; if they don t, get a sponsor ad. Terry: And the reason we go there first is because if your offer doesn t make money with Ezine, you are going to have trouble making money with anything else after it. Fred: So, that s where you start. Terry: That s where you start, and a good place to find a lot of Ezines is at the http://www.directoryofezines.com. That s a membership site, it s about $50 a year, and it has lists and lists of all kinds of Ezines in all different categories that you can purchase ads in. Fred: And for people listening, its http://www.directoryofezines.com, e-z-i-n-e-s.com. What else and where can they go after that? Pay-Per-Click Search Engines Terry: After you do the Ezine, another method you should use is the pay-per-click search engines which we mentioned at the very beginning. Fred: There may be some people listening to this tape, Terry, who aren t real familiar with what a pay-per-click search engine is. Can you tell them what it is? Terry: A pay-per-click search engine is a search engine online that people go to; they put in key words and they re basically looking for web sites. Its pay-per-click because you as an advertiser go to that search engine and say I m willing to pay a dollar per visitor for visitors to my site. And then they put you in their listings under that key word. Any time anybody clicks on your listing and goes to your site, they charge $1 to your account. Some of the pay-per-clicks ask you to deposit up front, such as $50. Other ones don t charge your credit card until after they ve had clicks and they bill you that way. That s how http://www.google.com does it, for example. Fred: In other words, we ve got a way in which we can decide on which key words. Now, a lot of people, myself included, have had some problems dealing with http://www.google.com and http://www.overture.com in trying to get them to take certain key words that we want to use to direct people to our site, but they won t let us use those key words. And in many cases, I feel they re crazy. I think the best key words are absolutely relevant. What am I doing wrong there? Terry: Overture is the worst about that. Google is actually a little bit easier. If you go to Google, they have a list of advertising rules. Make sure you follow every single one of 19

the rules because they re very strict on them, such as no exclamation points in your ads, no terms that you re the best, things like that. If you break the rules, they re going to cancel your ad every time. You re not going to be charged anything, but it s annoying because you have to do it again. They never let you have any pop-ups on any of your pages. Fred: http://www.google.com and http://www.overture.com are the two big ones, right? Terry: They are the two big ones and they are the pickiest. Overture is the worst about turning you down because they say the word that you want isn t relevant to your web site. They turned me down one time for Terry Dean. They said it wasn t relevant to my web site. Fred: These people are nuts. I mean what s going on over there? Can you explain what the rationale is here? After all, we want to give them money. I understand they don t want irrelevant terms directing people to the web site, but explain to me why they re doing this. Terry: They want to make sure that there s nothing there that is irrelevant at all and basically they have paid employees, paid per hour employees who don t always make the right decisions. And what I ve found a lot of times is I send them a key word and they reject it, I ll resubmit it again. Here s a quick tip. If you want your key words to be approved, always make sure to use the actual key word in the title of the ad that you use and in the ad copy s description. That gets you through so many more times. It s amazing. Fred: Give an example of that just so we can show people. Terry: For example, let s just say I wanted the term Internet marketing because that s my niche, I will make sure my title of the ad will have Internet marketing in it. It will say, Internet Marketing Revealed. And in the description, it ll say, Internet Marketing Membership site on how to generate more response from your ads. Fred: You have that both in the key word, in the description, and in the title. Terry: And it s going to give you much higher relevance. And even then people will reject it I ll resubmit and tell them why I m resubmitting, and often you ll have somebody else who will accept it because again they are all paid employees who probably get tired of the job and they don t always do a good job. Fred: What happens here is for the pay-per-clicks, what you need to do is you need to decide on what your key words will be, you submit them and they get reviewed by a real person. Terry: They get reviewed by a real person who may or may not make a right decision. 20

Fred: And clearly in the case of you submitting Terry Dean as relevant to your site, I mean that s an example of an absurd situation. Terry: And we got that later because I resubmitted and said, yes, my site is not about Terry Dean but I am Terry Dean and they are searching for my web site. Fred: And no problem. Terry: And no problem for the second time through. Fred: What other places? There are other pay-per-clicks other than Google and Overture and should you spend your time with those sorts of lesser pay-per-click search engines? Terry: The first pay-per-click I always go to now is Google because Google is quick. You put your key words up and you re going to start getting responses in about 24 hours or less. Overture takes about three or four days to review because they use different processes. Overture looks at your key words first, has a live person look at them first. Google puts them in first and then someone live looks at it later. Fred: So, it s a ready, fire, aim kind of thing. Terry: It s much quicker to get a response with them. And then the other ones I ll go to are http://www.sprinks.com is another good one. Fred: S-p-r-i-n-k-s.com. Terry: They advertise into the http://www.about.com directory so they actually have decent traffic from them. Fred: What s the http://www.about.com? Terry: It s another directory that people can go to online and basically people ask specific questions inside of that directory and they re looking for specific things in the directory. Fred: Is that http://www.about.com? Terry: That s one of the links that you can go to for it. And http://www.sprinks.com can generate a good amount of traffic. They re lower than Google and Overture by a long shot but they re still worth it. Fred: What else? 21

Terry: http://www.findwhat.com is another good one that s a lot smaller than the other two, but you re going to find for both of those, http://www.sprinks.com and http://wwww.findwhat.com are a lot lower. Fred: For the same key words. Terry: For the same key words, whereas Overture, a key word people might be bidding $5, it might actually be out of your bidding range for what you want to pay. On Findwhat they might be bidding 35 cents, so you can easily be number one. Fred: If you wanted a listing of all these search engines, you could also go to http://www.payperclicksearchengines.com which will list all these. Terry: That s a good one. And another site they can go to is http://www.payperclickanalyst.com because that one also reviews them, the pay-per-click search engines and what kind of response people are getting from it. Fred: Excellent. Now, anything more we need to talk about with pay-per-clicks? Terry: No, not really. But they re a great place and I have a lot of customers who get a major amount of their money from the pay-per-click search engines because basically you search for your key words, you work hard on them; especially Google. A lot of times when you first start you are going to lose a little bit of money on Google because you have to get the key words right, you have to do the right kind of ad, and you have to test ads. There s a lot of testing to do on Google, which is a good reason why we stuck them right here because you can do a lot of testing quickly before you do anything else. You ll lose a little money, but once you have something up and running you could run it for years there and make money from it every month. Fred: To analogize this to an offline situation, putting words or putting your site into pay-per-click search engines is sort of like taking out an ad in the Yellow Pages, isn t it because you d have to pay for it? Terry: You pay for it and you pay for it every month and you just keep bringing in customers from it every month. Fred: But as opposed to a Yellow Pages ad where a Yellow Page ad listing is there and you pay for it every month, here you only pay for it if somebody wants the Yellow Page ad and then calls you kind of thing would be the analogy. Terry: Exactly. And the other advantage that you have is you can test so quickly. On Google, I have tried five different ads this week to see what s working. In the Yellow Pages ads, you re not doing that. Fred: Yes, it s a yearly thing. Good example. I think we re done with pay-per-clicks. 22