U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS 0 0

0 0 TAPE # // JIM: That's what you've got to do and you've got to -- we're both in the position that we've got to trust somebody. And I got to tell you how much I appreciate you helping us with all those kids. SITA: Hey, I appreciate you because David really trusts you. JIM: Yeah. Well, I trust him. I trust him. And we've had no -- everything we've done has been solid with the one exception of yesterday when, you know, he told me he was going to come out after we played the message and then he didn't. Other than that, he's been solid. SITA: He was ready. JIM: Yeah. SITA: The guys were putting -- his clothes changed and everything and then he just had this kind of vision and he has to do what he's been told also, as you do, also. JIM: I understand. Well, you know, he, he may get another vision or a feeling or something that it's time to leave with his people, you know.

SITA: Yeah. JIM: And I'm hoping that that will be soon and -- you know, it could be. I mean that could be any moment, you know. SITA: Yeah. He's waiting. JIM: Maybe, maybe he'll get it, you know. You know -- SITA: We're all praying for this. JIM: Well, if you're praying for it, maybe it will happen. 0 for it. praying. SITA: Uh-huh. JIM: You know, let him know you're praying SITA: Oh, yes, he does. We've been JIM: Tell him -- and tell him what you're 0 praying for. SITA: And you guys have to help us out to pray. Not only him, it's the whole world. JIM: The whole world. Well, listen, I told David that -- after his message went on the Christian Broadcasting station, thousands and thousands of people were calling. And the Christian Broadcasting people told us they couldn't even keep the phones on the hook. There were so many calls. But the only

0 0 disappointment they had was that, you know, he didn't come out, you know, with, with all the people because he said he would. And they were all just so enthused about it. This guy -- and look at him and he's a leader. And he has all these, you know, beautiful ideas and he's going to solve this peacefully. And he told the world he would and then he didn't, you know. SITA: No, he was ready, but he got this vision and he doesn't break his promise. This man -- JIM: I understand. SITA: -- I never seen -- but he -- JIM: I understand. SITA: -- but he's been beautiful. JIM: I understand that. And I'm hoping that, that, you know, he may get a, a vision or feeling or however it comes to him, Sita, you know, maybe that you or I can't understand. Is, is Mark out yet? SITA: No, just a minute. JIM: Okay. DAVID: Okay, Mark, are you ready? Okay. I love you now. JIM: Hey, David? Oh, Sita? DAVID: Where's Dave at? Okay. Well, go say goodbye then to him, all right. Jim?

0 0 JIM: What? I'm sorry, David. DAVID: Hello? JIM: Yeah, go ahead. DAVID: Just be careful when you walk through here, not to walk on the phone. All right, I'm here. JIM: How's Mark doing? DAVID: He's fixing to leave now. JIM: Okay. he's fixing to -- DAVID: He's telling his dad bye. JIM: Okay. His dad's in there? DAVID: Yeah. JIM: What, what's his daddy's name? DAVID: Peter Cottontail Eater. JIM: What? DAVID: I'm teasing with you. JIM: No, no, I just -- I don't know -- I didn't know his dad was in there. DAVID: His name is Dave. JIM: Dave. Okay. Yeah, how are you feeling? DAVID: I'm -- JIM: Hey, one thing I wanted to ask you this morning -- DAVID: Yeah.

0 0 JIM: Let me see my note I made when I talked to that doctor. He was, he was concerned -- I told him about your wounds and -- DAVID: Well, evidently they didn't hit in - - they didn't hit in my colon. JIM: Okay. Well, that's, that's one thing he was asking about. DAVID: That's the main thing and I would know -- the fecal material didn't go anywhere, you know. JIM: Okay. And how about urination? He asked about could you urinate. DAVID: Well, the first two times -- well, it was hard the first two times and blood came out the first time. And the second time, it was hard to tell. And the third time I've urinated, it, it, it's all better. JIM: Oh, it is? DAVID: Yeah. JIM: How -- he asked about bowel movements also, but I -- that's been okay? DAVID: Well, I haven't had one as of yet but that's going to be kind of difficult but -- JIM: Yeah. DAVID: -- I haven't eaten anything for

0 0 let's see -- see, I've only had like soup, you know, chicken broth soup. JIM: Well, that's good, yeah. DAVID: So, that will, that will keep -- that will give me the nourishment but it will keep the bulk out of my system. JIM: Right. I told him you thought, you know, it might have busted your pelvis and, and a pelvic bone or something. DAVID: Yes. JIM: And he said, yeah, that would of course affect your walking or anything like that. DAVID; Yeah. JIM: And he, he -- then he asked about the location of the wound, front and back and especially your pulse. He said your pulse was real important so you weren't in shock, you know. And he said -- DAVID: Well, it was real, real low. JIM: Right. Low? DAVID: But then what happened was it was -- then it -- something, something over -- something over 0, something -- JIM: Well, that's blood pressure. DAVID: And what, what was the pulse? JIM: The pulse is, you know, how many beats

0 0 per minute on your heart. He said, he said blood pressure is only one indicator and you need to check on the pulse because it could be like -- DAVID: Rach? Be sure and tell him. (An unidentified person speaking in the background to David) DAVID: Okay. Yeah, tell everybody. JIM: Check your pulse for me some time later. DAVID: Okay. Well, I can -- what was my, what was my pulse the last time you read it? (An unidentified person speaking in the background to David) DAVID: Seventy-two. Okay. Hey, I'm going to let you talk to her. JIM: Okay. Is this the nurse? JULIENNE: Hello. JIM: Hello. This is Jim. JULIENNE: Yeah? JIM: Who is this? JULIENNE: I'm, I'm the nurse. JIM: Oh, and what's your name? JULIENNE: My name is Julienne Matthews (Phonetic.) JIM: I'm sorry, your first name?

0 0 JULIENNE: Pardon? JIM: What was your first name? JULIENNE: Julienne JIM: Julienne? JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Okay. Are you English? JULIENNE: No, I'm not. JIM: Oh, I'm sorry. I thought -- I detected -- JULIENNE: Yeah. JIM: I was talking to David about his wounds and I, I just wanted to make sure he wasn't going to be in shock or -- JULIENNE: Yes. Well, look, at the moment his condition is satisfactory and it is stable. His observations are quite satisfactory. JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: Yeah. JIM: Now, can you tell me where that front wound is? He said it was lower abdomen. JULIENNE: Yes, it was lower left abdomen. JIM: Lower left, okay. Is it -- JULIENNE: Yes, JIM: -- is it near his belly button? JULIENNE: No, further down, near the iliac

0 0 crest, on the left. JIM: Oh, I see, okay. JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Is he, is he bleeding bad or anything? JULIENNE: He was in the first place but now it seems to have subsided. It's just oozing a little. JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Just oozing but you don't think it's infected, do you? JULIENNE: No, I don't think so. JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: He's eating. He's having soup. And he's passing, urinating all right. And he hasn't got a temperature, you know. His temperature is quite normal. JIM: Okay. That's good. 0 right. JULIENNE: His color looks good. JIM: Color good, okay. JULIENNE: Yeah. JIM: And you say he's urinating? JULIENNE: Yes, he's passing water all JIM: Okay. No vomiting or anything? JULIENNE: No vomiting, no headache, no.

0 0 JIM: Okay. How about that wound in the back, Julian, how does it look on his back side there? JULIENNE: Fine. As I said, it's just oozing, that's all. JIM: Oh, and that's in the back? JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Okay. What color is it now? JULIENNE: It's just clear fluid. JIM: Okay. Okay. So, you think he's going to be stable? JULIENNE: Yes, I think so. I've been doing regular observation checks and it seems to be stable. JIM: Do you need any medication or -- JULIENNE: Pardon? JIM: Or is he, is he taking any? JULIENNE: No, he doesn't take medication at all. JIM: Oh, he -- JULIENNE: Mr. Koresh doesn't like taking medication. JIM: Oh, I see. Okay. JULIENNE: General health is always good. JIM: The what? JULIENNE: He has been always in good condition, good health.

0 0 JIM: Okay. Is his -- doesn't he have a wound on his arm? JULIENNE: Yes, a slight one. JIM: Is that -- JULIENNE: On the left arm. JIM: Is it okay? JULIENNE: Yes, it is okay. JIM: Okay. How about Scott's wound on his leg? He seemed to be having some trouble with it. Did you look at him? JULIENNE: Just a minute. On his leg? JIM: Yeah. JULIENNE: Just a minute, please. JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: I'm sorry, you misunderstood. JIM: What? Julian? JULIENNE: Oh, Scott, Scott. JIM: Scott. JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Yeah, he had a wound in his leg or -- JULIENNE: Yes, yes. JIM: How's that doing? JULIENNE: It's just a slight one. Yes, it seems to be -- it's not bleeding. It's just healing up now.

0 0 JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: Seems to be healing now. JIM: He just seemed to be having a lot of pain or something yesterday. JULIENNE: Yeah, but he hasn't had any this morning. So, it seems as though it's subsiding, you know. JIM: Okay. Are there any other serious medical problems that we need to be prepared for? JULIENNE: No, there's none at all. JIM: That's all. Nobody else has a -- JULIENNE: Nobody else. It's just these two at the moment. JIM: Okay. Okay. All right. Does David have full sensation in his, in his legs? JULIENNE: Oh, just a minute, there's one more and that's Julie -- Judy. JIM: Judy? JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Where was she wounded? JULIENNE: In her finger -- her right shoulder, right shoulder and right finger. JIM: And right finger, okay. How is she doing? How do they look? Is she ambulatory, can she walk?

her baby. JULIENNE: Yes, she can. She was feeding JIM: Okay. JULIENNE: Yes. JIM: Right shoulder and her right finger? JULIENNE: Yeah. JIM: Did you patch her up? JULIENNE: Yes, I did. JIM: Okay. And the bleeding stopped? JULIENNE: Yeah, it has stopped now. 0 0 JIM: You don't use any drugs in there at all, do you? JULIENNE: No, we don't use any drugs. JIM: Okay. Let me -- is David there? JULIENNE: Yes, he is. JIM: Okay. Let me talk to him. JULIENNE: All right. Thank you very much. JIM: Thank you, Julienne. JULIENNE: Bye. DAVID: Hello. JIM: Hey, David, did Mark leave? DAVID: Mark's left, hadn't he? JIM: No. We haven't seen him out there, they told me. DAVID: Keep it.

0 0 JIM: Is Rachel there? Send her down to check maybe. DAVID: They're looking out -- JIM: Oh, they're looking -- DAVID: -- out the door. JIM: The door is open. Okay. They're telling me the door is open. He must be walking out. DAVID: And the, the puppies are out there? JIM: Yeah. He's walking out the door. DAVID: He's got a box in his hand, right? JIM: The box is the puppies, yeah. DAVID: He's not having any trouble carrying it, is he? They are heavy? Is he having trouble with the box? JIM: You know, you can have Sita carry it if he has trouble. DAVID: No, he's got it. He's already passed the Silver Eagle bus. JIM: Oh, he's already half way -- a quarter way down then. Okay, good. He must be able to get down there. That's a big bus. DAVID: Yeah, it was going to be our tour bus. JIM: Does that thing run? DAVID: Yeah.

0 0 JIM: That's neat. DAVID: A brand new motor. JIM: Wow. You must have some good mechanics out there, all those cars. DAVID: It's not really that many cars. JIM: There's quite a few. DAVID: Had a Camero restoration shop. Didn't do too good out here in Texas, though. JIM: Oh, yeah. It's tough -- DAVID: Yeah, the news are in there saying that we got all this stuff, we must be into drugs. They're hoping to find drugs and stuff. JIM: Is that right? DAVID: Something I have been against all my life, cocaine, heroine. JIM: Well, the nurse said that you didn't take any medications. DAVID: No. Well, see what happens was I had -- was just a couple of years ago, I got an anxiety attack one time. JIM: Uh-huh. DAVID: And, so, I went to check on it and they wanted to give me some Anzac or Danzig or I can't remember what the stuff is called. Well, I took it and it just affected me so much, I just said forget

that. JIM: Is it Xanax? DAVID: Yeah, Xanax. I think that's it, 0 0 something like that. JIM: Yeah, I've heard of that. DAVID: And it's just, it's just no good. JIM: Well, what does -- does it make you feel bad, feel -- DAVID: Oh, it just made me -- JIM: Throw up? DAVID: -- made me slur. I couldn't talk, you know. JIM: Oh, yeah. Hey, listen, I really appreciate your letting Mark out. DAVID: Well, like I say, it's, you know, your people have us figured out all wrong. JIM: No. I'm glad -- DAVID: You're trying to figure out a terrorist mind, you know. You just don't understand. JIM: No. I'm glad we're -- it's beginning to work well together and, again, like we were before. Is there anybody else you want to send out? DAVID: We're checking around. JIM: Okay. DAVID: Well, he said he wanted to -- he

0 0 said he'd like to go. So, off he goes. JIM: Okay. Is there any -- maybe some of those women with those little children, if there is any of those who might want to come. DAVID: They're waiting. JIM: Sita was kind of worried about her kids. DAVID: Well, she heard on the news that you already put them in the foster homes and it was understood that they were going to be given over to their immediate families. JIM: Oh, no, they're, they're working on that. DAVID: Cause like I say, you know, that news is -- JIM: Well, they never tell anything right. I know you love those kids. I'm telling you. I know you do. I can tell just by the way you're holding Bobby there. DAVID: Nothing more, nothing more -- well, even Hitler loved kids, didn't he? JIM: Hey, you can't, you can't -- that's something you -- it's got to be genuine, you know. And you love those kids. DAVID: Ask them if they love me.

0 0 JIM: Oh, heck, they do. I can tell you that. I can tell you that. I've talked to them and seen every one of them and they do love you. DAVID: What this, what's this thing we've got dead? JIM: Oh, the news media -- DAVID: I mean we're getting, we're getting, we're getting shot more everyday. I mean -- JIM: Yeah. They're just making up stuff, the news media. Don't worry about that. DAVID: Well, why, why don't you all correct it? DAVID: Well, we don't, we don't share our conversations. We don't tell them what you and I talk about unless it's, unless it's a press conference that -- DAVID: Well, the press conference, they didn't correct it at the press conference either. JIM: Well, I don't know that they even asked them. They said two. They said there was just the two, the lady and the little girl. DAVID: These, these reports -- JIM: Those reports, I mean -- did I tell you what they did yesterday? DAVID: What did they do?

0 0 0 JIM: You remember when we had the school buses down there? DAVID: Uh-huh. JIM: Okay. When the school buses drove away, they came out and said 0 children just left on the school bus. DAVID: Yeah. JIM: That's what they said. DAVID: Yeah. JIM: Then they're calling up here to the Commander saying, where's the 0 children, you know. And they just make it up. I mean when you come out, that's one thing that you've got to put your mind to and that's to correct all that false reports of the press. DAVID: When I come out, Jim, that's the last thing I'll be ever to say. You know that. JIM: Oh, that's not true. DAVID: Oh, Jim, come on. JIM: Hey, did you -- seriously in that news conference, did you see those reporters? I've never seen so many reporters. DAVID: Oh, yeah. They're, they're all looking for the scoop. JIM: I mean -- that's right. That's

0 0 exactly right. And they're just going nuts. I mean they want to, they want to talk to you. They want to hear your side. DAVID: Yeah, well, the ATF agents said that what happened that Sunday morning was that Robert came out. JIM: Uh-huh. DAVID: He gave a false signal. And, you know, they came in on a false signal. JIM: Uh-huh. Well, I regret the way that thing happened. I really do, and I know you do, too. And if you and me could have been working together on it, it wouldn't have happened. DAVID: Well, I told, I told him -- that I wanted to talk to him, you know. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: Because I gave him every possible, you know, way to know that, you know, God sees all things. They're trying to figure out how we found out about this. JIM: Right. DAVID: You know. JIM: Well, I, I told Steve earlier -- we talked at length and I think the agents got some information, you know, prior, months ago from some of

0 0 your enemies. You, you guys must have some people that don't like you. And I kind of think -- DAVID: Well, -- JIM: -- they fed those agents some information, you know, that -- you know what I mean? DAVID: We've got a lot of people that have promised to wipe us out. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: All the religious bases. JIM: Yeah. Yeah. DAVID: You know. We've had, we've had -- we've even had people call up here and you all, you all been taping the lines for God knows how long and you, you probably even have some of these things recorded where somebody on the phone calls up and says, I'm going to break up your world and blah, blah, blah. JIM: Oh. Don't worry about that. I want to tell you what, when you come out, you're going to be the biggest attraction in this country. DAVID: Look, that's not important -- JIM: Overseas. DAVID: -- okay. JIM: Well, it's going to happen. DAVID: God, God is the attraction.

JIM: Right. DAVID: My father -- let me, let me explain 0 0 to you. JIM: Did you see, did you see all those people from England, those reporters, and Australia? DAVID: Oh, well, you should -- JIM: Let me ask -- DAVID: Oh, well you should -- if you ever get in trouble, never get in trouble in Australia, Jim. JIM: I've never been there, have you? DAVID: Never. Oh, yeah, several times. JIM: Yeah. Is it nice or what? DAVID: Well, no place is as nice as America, let's face it. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: But the thing of it is is this, they are into such sensationalism that -- well, like I say, on all these Hard Copy and 0/0, whatever they're playing, they always take and -- JIM: That's garbage, isn't it? DAVID: Well, now, the media likes that. I mean the people like that. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: But here's the thing, those --

0 0 JIM: Trash T.V. I call it. DAVID: Yeah. Well, those, those guys came up here last time, you know. Like I said, there's things that I, I cannot tell people, you know. JIM: I understand. DAVID: Let's say 000 years -- hey, are you the Messiah, yes or no? JIM: Uh-huh. DAVID: You know, Christ kept denying it, didn't he? JIM: Yeah. DAVID: And he kept referring, he said, you know who I am. JIM: Right. What did you say? I'm sorry, David, hold on. What did you say? Did they pick up Mark? Did they pick up Mark? He's safe? They've got the puppies? Okay. Mark is in the ambulance and they have the puppies. DAVID: Okay. JIM: And he's safe. So -- DAVID: Well, have him give us a call when he gets there. JIM: He's going to get over here, you know. I'll tell you now, just -- I want you to bear with me on that because that, that highway is cra -- you know,

0 0 there is about a billion news reporters there. So, we'll get him over here. DAVID: Getting more and more, huh? JIM: Oh, it's, it's -- DAVID: It's funny how they all want to come. You think they'd save some gas and all that and just get it on a national line from two or three guys, huh. JIM: Hey, is there, is there anybody else you want to send out? See, -- DAVID: Well, we're, we're going, we're going to work this out. And like I'm saying -- JIM: That's good, good. I'm glad. Sita, Sita I was concerned about because she, she was -- DAVID: Well, do you want to talk to her some more? JIM: Well, -- DAVID: Go ahead and talk to her. JIM: Is she there? DAVID: Yeah, she's right here. JIM: Okay. Well, you stay -- DAVID: She told me, she said, she says, you know, she says, David, she says, you know, it's getting hard for me. JIM: Yeah.

0 0 DAVID: She says, you know, this, this last time that I went out, she says, I, you know, I almost didn't come back. And I told her, you know, I said, Sita, you, you got to do what you got to do, you know. JIM: Well, I -- DAVID: Go ahead and talk to her. JIM: You're a man of your word and that's - - DAVID: Go ahead and talk to her. I don't bind anybody. JIM: I know. I know. DAVID: You know. What I believe is what I teach and when I teach the truth, that's what binds people together. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: Now, if a person all of a sudden doesn't see it that way, hey, -- JIM: Is she right there, David? DAVID: Yes, she's here. JIM: Yeah. DAVID: Here she is. JIM: Okay. Well, don't you leave. I, I want to talk to her right with you there but -- SITA: Jim? JIM: Yeah, Sita. I was just talking to

0 0 David, you know, and he said you could go and, and you're not -- you heard him. SITA: Yes. He told me the beginning when I first brought my children down there, the first kids, mine. JIM: Right. Well, I think -- SITA: Well, he told me I can do -- go with them or stay. JIM: Well, he loves you. SITA: I know he loves me. JIM: He loves you and he wants what's safe for you. What, what -- SITA: But the Book is there. I'm not -- I don't remember everything he teach me but it's plain - - it's in black and white. JIM: But listen -- but leaving doesn't change anything. That doesn't change anything. If you believe in him, you can't leave him. How could you leave him if you believe in him? You couldn't leave him. You're still with him. You're still with him. SITA: Yes, I'm still with him but it's not him. It's the Book. JIM: I understand. SITA: What he teaches.

0 0 JIM: Yeah. It's in your mind and in your heart. It's not where your feet are, your mind and your heart. These kids need you. SITA: I need them, too, you don't know how bad. Every time I go in -- JIM: Well, you, you need, you need to -- if, if David gives his blessing and he already did, then you need to walk out and you will still be connected. There's, there's no one on heaven and earth can break that connection between you and him. And I'm not trying. I wouldn't do it. But I want you to come out and be safe with these kids. And he said you could. SITA: Yes, he told me. JIM: And, okay, then it's settled. I want you to get your coat, and I want you to come down and walk to that ambulance. Okay? I want you to kiss David good-bye, and I want you to tell him how much you love him and that you're not leaving him and that you're with him always no matter what. SITA: I'm -- JIM: And that you will see him soon. Okay? SITA: Jim? JIM: Listen, it takes courage to do this but you have it.

0 0 SITA: I don't have courage right now but I -- what he's been teaching me -- JIM: Right. SITA: -- I can't remember everything he said. I always break what he's told me, every little thing, I try but I keep going on the wrong path but he's always -- the Bible is there. JIM: It's there. SITA: The words. JIM: I understand that. And he, and he, and he -- the Book is there and he wants you to be happy. SITA: He wants everybody to be happy. He loves life very much. JIM: He -- I know he does, and he's sending those Bibles out with the children. They're carrying the word. And you'll carry one with you, the word, and bring it out. SITA: Well, I hope so because when I heard the news that they went to foster home -- JIM: Well, you're not here. SITA: Hey, I -- when that trailer just came out in front of my door -- room -- JIM: I know, Sita, but it's the past. SITA: Who do you think I believe now?

0 0 0 JIM: I understand. I understand. We want you to tell your side. I want you to tell your side. You know what I mean? I feel real bad about it. I, I'm being honest with you. You know I'm being honest with you. I feel real bad about it. I'm glad you weren't hurt. SITA: If they know there were kids and children, how could they just come out of the trailer and shoot? JIM: Yeah, I understand. Well, it's going to be fully investigated. You, you can be assured of that. And if you've seen the news, you'll know that. SITA: I saw some of the news. JIM: Okay. SITA: And the one -- the people from Australia. They came and they see everything, what they saw, and David talked to them, and they, they just all to pieces -- been told. They just take one verse, what he said, and they just make him like he's an addict or something. JIM: Well, you know, Sita, yesterday -- I know what you're saying. I -- the news media, you know, twists and turns things. And the problem is, if you guys were out, you could straighten a lot of that out. It's hard to do from in there. But yesterday we

0 0 played the tape that made -- David made on the Broadcast network. SITA: Uh-huh. JIM: And it was not edited. It was his solid word for an hour. SITA: No. JIM: So, you know, it got out. SITA: I -- that -- I appreciate it because -- JIM: It got out and you know it did. SITA: Yes. I heard it, and I heard him talking. It took him so much trying to do that tape. JIM: Listen, he's a good guy, and he cares for you, and you love him. And I think -- SITA: I love everybody here -- JIM: I -- SITA: -- and I love the people outside. JIM: I know you do. And there's -- everybody out here wants you to be safe. And he's given you his blessing. SITA: He did. I was tempted to jump in the van but, no. JIM: Well, I know you wouldn't do that. SITA: But there's lots of kids more here, also. And there's people.

0 0 JIM: Well, bring, bring the -- SITA: The -- JIM: Bring the kids, if you want. SITA: They haven't done anything. We just learning about the Bible. JIM: I understand. SITA: And -- JIM: We're not saying you did anything. We're not saying you did anything. We -- SITA: Then why was the two older ladies who we heard it -- JIM: I dropped that. I had that taken care of today, as soon as I heard about it. Now, listen, Sita, -- SITA: I hope so. JIM: -- I took care of it. Well, let me, let me explain what happened, okay, because you may not know, okay. I talked to Steve this morning at :00, okay, and you can ask him. And he said, Jim, I got a report that two ladies were, were charged with murder or conspiracy or something. SITA: Yes. JIM: So, I went over to the command post over here and said, look, what's happened with two ladies? I mean they were just inside. You know, you

0 0 can't charge them with that. And, and a couple of those guys were arguing with him. I said, well, I want that taken off, taken care of it. And I asked them if they would do it and the commanders were all meeting. Then they put -- what they did was, it was a material witness. And that's -- SITA: What's that, material witness? JIM: Well, it means protective custody, okay. SITA: Protective custody, I hope so. JIM: Yeah, that's what it is. It means for their protection, they're -- you know, safe, that's all. SITA: Margaret Lawson is -- she have arthritis and she's, she's -- they're both gentle ladies. JIM: Yeah, I know they are. In fact, I met one of them in the hallway and she was just a real angel, a real sweet lady, and she brought, brought -- you come out, you'll see. You'll get good treatment and I guarantee it. I guarantee you'll get good treatment. Now, get your coat -- SITA: -- when all the tanks are on us. They're nothing. JIM: Oh, I know that. I know you're not

0 0 worried about them. That's not, that's not for you. That's for the guys in there. They don't want to be shot. SITA: So, it's that people down here? JIM: No, it's just that we don't want anybody else to be injured at all. SITA: No, I don't want nothing happening to -- JIM: That's right. We don't want nothing to happen. And the only way that's going to happen, we got to work it out. What I'd like you to do, Sita, is get your coat, get a couple of kids or who you want, you have David's blessing already, and come on out. You can trust me, you know you can. And bring your, bring your Bible, bring your word, and you're still connected with him. I, I don't see how that could change anything between you and him. SITA: Nothing will change. JIM: Nothing will change. SITA: Jim? JIM: What? SITA: Listen. JIM: Okay. Don't you trust me? SITA: When I come out, I want everybody here safe, not only me.

0 0 JIM: Well, I want everybody safe. And I'm prepared to make those arrangements as soon as you want to, immediately. In fact, I'd rather do it the sooner the better. Don't you trust me, Sita? Huh? SITA: I'm trusting you a little bit, but right now -- JIM: Please trust -- don't you think you'll be safe? Don't you know all those children are safe? SITA: I hope so because I heard so much stories on the news already. JIM: Okay. I want to tell you something, you hang around that telephone for awhile, okay? SITA: Uhum. JIM: Because Mark is coming over here to see me. And he's years old, right? SITA: Yes. JIM: Now, he's big enough to talk to you. SITA: Oh, yes, he's old enough to talk. JIM: You ask him how they treated him, okay? SITA: While he went out that gate, they took his clothes off. JIM: Huh? SITA: They took his jacket. They really check him good. He is a kid.

0 0 JIM: Yeah. Well, they're just trying to make it safe. They don't want him to be injured. I - - you know, I don't -- I didn't see that part so I don't know. He's going to be fine. SITA: Darryl didn't do that to my kids. JIM: No. SITA: Darryl was good. JIM: Yeah. Darryl is good, yeah. SITA: And some of the people I met. JIM: Yeah. Well, I understand. Well, I want you to -- I want you to come out. I want you to come out. I really do. I think you need to for your children. I think you need to show the others that you have some courage and that they should do the same thing. You really need to. Somebody in there has got to have the courage to come on out. I mean, I mean it's time. I mean the Bible can come with you, your word. SITA: That's not the thing. We have the courage to come out anytime we want. JIM: Okay. SITA: He gave us his blessing. JIM: Well, will you come out now? SITA: No, I'm sorry. JIM: Okay. Okay. Well, I understand.

0 0 SITA: I'm -- when this over, then I'll come -- we'll come out, a big family. JIM: Yeah. Well, is it -- okay, Sita, is there any others in there that you think might want to walk out? SITA: I beg your pardon? JIM: Is there anybody else inside that you think might want to walk out now? SITA: Oh, be careful. Wait, wait. Wait, wait, wait. One of the kids trying to crawl on the father and -- JIM: Sita? SITA: Yeah. JIM: Is, is there anybody else in there that might want to come out? I'm concerned about anybody also who's wounded, Scott or -- I don't know if David's waiting awhile but before -- the little babies, do they want to come -- and their mothers -- do they want to come out? SITA: I don't know. It's up to them to -- I -- JIM: Well, would you ask them and -- David has given it his blessing, now. He's told me that. SITA: Yes, he gave me when -- told me if I wanted my kids out, and I said, yes.

walk out. JIM: Well, he wants you out if you want to SITA: Yes. He said it's up to me. It's up 0 0 to me if I want to stay or not. JIM: Right. Well, I think you -- SITA: I don't know about the rest of the people here. JIM: Well, the kids want you and they need you. SITA: Hey, every time I go in my room, it was -- they would have been dead if I was -- I didn't go back. We just got finished service at the church and I went in there. JIM: Well, those babies need you. I'm telling you, they need you. What are they going to do without you? SITA: I need them, too. JIM: What are they going to do without you? SITA: We were having a study and David, -- we just left study, worship, our worship hour. And we went to the room and I went to the window. I don't know what made me look in -- out in the window. JIM: But, Sita, -- SITA: But I went to the window. What I saw, I cannot believe what I saw. I thought -- was

0 0 just a movie or some kind. But when that shot came -- JIM: I understand. I understand. And that's all natural, natural feelings to anyone who's been through this. SITA: I felt that because it got singed my butt a little bit, just fly in my butt. JIM: Well, -- SITA: On my left -- on my right one. JIM: Well, I'll have a doctor look at you. SITA: No, it just passed me, gave me a bruise. JIM: Well, I'd like you to come out and you could, you could lead those kids and study out here. You can calm them, you can love them. I mean, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, you need to do it. You need to come out. You come out and you tell the world and he'll make sure that, that thing never happens again like that. You tell your side, all of you. All of you should come out and tell your side of what happened. Who is going to tell it you don't tell it? Huh? You guys need to come out. And it will be looked into, every aspect of it, and everybody's actions will be looked into. And I think it's time that, you know, you all showed some good faith here and some peaceful resolution here. Let's -- then do

it. SITA: Yes. Excuse me. You have to talk to 0 0 0 David right now, okay? JIM: Hey, listen, -- SITA: Yes. JIM: -- Sita? I know you realize that what I'm saying is true, and I just want you to know that you can trust me, and I will help you. And you can make a difference, okay. And if you want to talk to me later -- SITA: David -- Jim, I'm sorry. JIM: That's okay, Sita. SITA: You can make a difference, also. JIM: Well, I'm trying to make a difference. SITA: Talk, talk to them. JIM: I'm trying. I'm, I'm working a lot of hours to try to make a difference. SITA: Talk to them. Make them understand. JIM: Nobody is going to hurt you. I -- if you come out, -- SITA: Nobody going to hurt us? JIM: Nobody will hurt you. SITA: They already did. JIM: Well, not anymore. SITA: Even though there's no wound in me,

0 0 my heart is already tearing apart, what, what I saw, what happened. JIM: I understand. I understand. There's a lot of people, not only you and your people in there, that feel real bad about what happened. A lot of people feel real bad about the whole situation. The point is, it's over, and we don't need anymore trouble. What we want now is to show that we can all resolve it peacefully. And that's what the world is watching to see. And that's what needs to be done for all these beautiful children and these families and your group and David. Come on, I mean this, this is - - your beliefs and group, your word's got to go on. It's going to go on. Do you realize the millions of people that have seen about your group and the message? SITA: Yes. The word will go on if you will wait what the Lord have him to say. JIM: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Sita, I want you - - SITA: He's waiting. JIM: I know. SITA: He can't do it himself, either. He's waiting what to do next. JIM: I understand that. And I think that

0 0 he's waiting awhile and he's going to get that vision again where he's feeling. And he's going to get that conviction or how, however it comes to David cause, cause, you know, I can't see how he receives it. SITA: No, you don't know. JIM: I don't know but when he does, you know, the message may be, it's time David, gather your flock and lead them out, walk out. And, and -- SITA: You know, I wasn't in this message when I first came. I don't believe it, I don't understand it. I only came because my husband. When I marry to him, I said for life or death. JIM: Well, you know, taken -- SITA: And I just listen and listen, take me two to three years, and I say this man crazy or what. JIM: He's not crazy. SITA: But I'm beginning to understand him more day after day, month after month, listening to him and watching him and the mercy he gives to us and everything. JIM: But the -- SITA: He, he tell us something and we do the opposite. JIM: Well, if that, if that is true, okay, and that --

0 0 SITA: -- the word he teaches. JIM: Well, if that bond is that strong and that you love him that much, then you -- SITA: It's the words. JIM: -- can't ever leave him no matter -- any way. Physically you can't. And if you walk out to your children, you haven't left him. He's going to come out, too. Taking the first step is difficult, but you need to lead the way for the others to follow. You're, you're the one who's had the courage to bring those children out. You've had it. That was a very difficult thing. But you got on the phone with me and we talked and I asked you to trust me and you said, yeah, I will. SITA: Yes, I -- JIM: And you came back every time. We didn't have any tricks or anything. You know that. SITA: Well, there was one couple, I, I thought that they was going to grab me. JIM: They weren't, though. They didn't. They could have done that. They didn't do it. SITA: They were -- I don't know. My instincts got feeling where -- I don't know. I didn't feel it with the rest of the people who I met. JIM: I remember we talked about that after

0 0 but that was I think more your feeling of maybe the way they looked, but they didn't -- they were under instructions not to, to just let the children come out. You know, from all our conversations and my discussions with David, I know, I understand what's going on in there. And I understand a little bit. I can't maybe understand as well as you guys do. I'm not saying that. SITA: Then -- JIM: But I think that you're, you're one in spirit with him. I mean you, you have a connection with him. And I just feel like it's so strong. If it, if it, if it was a -- not real, then, you know, walking out would mean -- would, would be a big deal cause you'd be leaving him but if it's real, that isn't leaving him. It can't be leaving him because you're one in the spirit. And he's going to see his people come out and then he's going to watch over the flock as they do come out, and then he's going to come out, too. SITA: The people here are not bonded. Even in the study, if you want to leave, you can go. JIM: I know that. SITA: He told them all the times -- when they make something wrong, say, what are you doing

0 0 here? Why not just leave. We don't listen. But our -- of flesh wants something that we want and we'll take it. JIM: Oh, I know you're not held there against your -- SITA: There's nobody -- anybody can get out of here if they want to. JIM: Well, just walk out the door. I know that. You're not held there. I'm not saying you're held there. I know, I know exactly you're there because you feel like you want to be there or you feel like is leaving the right thing to do. But if you -- it's the right thing to do and it is for your children. SITA: Yeah. And when Robert -- JIM: And it is for -- SITA: When we first met Robert -- because at that -- across the street, that something's going on and that -- he, he came our house. We being nice, friendly, talking to him, we talked. And he did this. JIM: Uh-hum. I understand. I understand. And I know how you feel about that. I can, I can appreciate the fact that you feel like he -- SITA: I want to understand why he -- why? JIM: Yeah. I know. I know what you're

0 0 saying. I can understand how you feel about it. I sympathize with it. How old are you, Sita? SITA: How old I am? JIM: Yeah. How old are you? SITA: I'm thirty-four. JIM: Thirty-four. SITA: And then one of the reporters told me thought I was eleven years old. JIM: Oh, heck. They haven't gotten anything right during this whole thing. SITA: Hey, I may be small. I got two kids. JIM: Yeah. Yeah. Well, those kids are great, I'm telling you. They're great. They're all doing real well. SITA: Well, sometimes I act like an eleven year old kid because they're the same height as me. So -- JIM: We all act like kids sometimes. SITA: I'm not an adult to them. JIM: No. I can understand. Maybe that's why they can get with you easier and work with you easier, huh? That's good. That's good. I want you to, I want you to think about what we talked about and -- SITA: Right now -- excuse me, but I'll give

0 0 you to David right now, okay? JIM: But, remember, the children really need you. Trust me. SITA: Yes. The only thing right now is if I can hear some of the kids because all different stories. They said they were separate and going different ways. JIM: Well, come out and you can find out about it. I mean come out and be with it, confront it, face it head on, come on. SITA: I want -- if there's -- hello? JIM: Yeah, I'm sorry. The -- I bumped my line here. SITA: Is there anyway I can talk to them? JIM: If you come out, uh-huh, if you come - - SITA: If I come out? JIM: Uh-huh. SITA: I'll be worrying over here also. JIM: Well, I know, but if you come out -- I mean that's, that's the thing to do. And you'll be able to deal, deal with -- about the children and be able to help them and be a strength for them and a strength and a representative for David until he comes out. And he is coming out. He's told me he was.

SITA: Yes. And he does give his word. JIM: And he does give his word. He keeps 0 0 his word. SITA: He keeps his word. JIM: And right now, he's waiting awhile and he'll be out soon, too, and you'll be reunited. And, you know, I think you guys need to bond together in there and decide that the hard thing to do is come out. Cause the first step is hard, but it takes courage. But I know you have that courage. I want you to, I want you to use it, you know, and use it for David's sake and come on out. And talk to some of those other mothers, some of those men who have an injury, too. I mean they need to get treated, you know. SITA: Hey, the men who are injured? JIM: Uh-huh. SITA: They're beautiful. JIM: They are. SITA: They're handling is so good. JIM: Oh, I know they are. I know you're proud of them. SITA: They haven't -- JIM: And they're brave and they're standing up and being strong for you, but they still need to

0 have medical treatment. Nobody is so strong that they don't need medical treatment and don't -- SITA: They're having medical treatment right now. JIM: Well, I understand. I understand. SITA: It's only David that doesn't want anything. JIM: Yeah. SITA: He's taking the pain on himself. JIM: Yeah. I understand. Well, Sita, I want you to take a deep breath and relax and -- SITA: Well, I'm shaking. JIM: I know you are. I know you are and I'm sorry that that's the way you feel but take -- SITA: I'm fine. JIM: Okay. Your kids need you. They need their mother. And those other children need their 0 mothers. SITA: I'm not shaking because I'm scared. JIM: I know that. SITA: But because -- JIM: It's a difficult situation. SITA: -- of the situation, what happened. JIM: It's very difficult. And all your feelings are normal. Anyone would feel the same way

0 0 0 that's been through this and it's normal. All your reactions are perfectly normal. And that's the way anyone feels that's been through something like this. But it's time for us now to all gather up, safely resolve it and that's what all the press is out there for, waiting to get David's word, see this group of beautiful people make the right decision to come out. I mean show them that. I want you to show them that you're not violent. You told me you're not. Right? SITA: I never seen -- JIM: Right. SITA: I may have fight with my brothers when I -- JIM: I know. That's what I -- why don't you show, show them that? SITA: But I never seen a shootout the way it was like this. JIM: Right. And I want -- and you will show them what's in your hearts when you walk out and say, we are peaceful people and this shouldn't have happened. Then you can tell your side of it. SITA: It wouldn't have happened. JIM: And, and I understand that. But, you know, that's, that's a sign you're going to be given about your intentions during this thing. And that's a

sign that, look, this is the kind of people we are. We're walking out. And that's what, that's what I want you to do. about it. SITA: I'll walk out -- JIM: Okay. Well, come out now. SITA: -- when I'm ready. JIM: Okay. Well, think about it. Think SITA: He doesn't -- he gave me the freedom 0 of choice like anybody else in here, that we can go or not. JIM: I know but even if you're not ready to come out now, the kids need you. Oh, Mark is here. Hold on, Sita. SITA: Uh-hum. JIM: You can talk to him and ask him how he was treated. (end of tape) 0