JP: I THINK THAT S NEW THAT S NEW THEY JUST GET BIGGER THOSE ARE

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1 1 INTERVIEW WITH: JOSH POWELL INTERVIEWED BY: ELLIS MAXWELL DATE OF INTERVIEW: CASE NUMBER: 09I DATE TRANSCRIBED: TRANSCRIBED BY: TANYA HEGELMAN I THINK THAT S NEW THAT S NEW THEY JUST GET BIGGER THOSE ARE NEW. THAT S NEW K LIKE I SAY THEY THERES THREE NEW ONES THEY JUST KEEP GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER. (INAUDIBLE) ALRIGHT NO PROBLEM HAVE A SEAT LET ME GO GRAB MY NOTEBO AND ILL BE RIGHT BACK? DOOR CLOSES DOOR OPENS... DO YOU WANT A GLASS OF WATER OR ANYTHING? DOOR CLOSES DOOR OPENS... UK: DID YOU GET THE CAMERA? NO ILL GRAB IT. I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT IT IT S NOT REALLY TO IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW. WELL I CERTAINTLY WANT YOU TO HAVE BOTH. NO I DEFINITELY WANT ILL TAKE AND PHOTOGRAPH THOSE II

2 AGAIN. NOW ON ON THE WAY OVER HERE I ACTUALLY DID CALL MY ATTORNEYS AND THEY SAID I SHOULD DEFINITELY HAVE AN ATTORNEY? WHATS THAT? I I CALLED MY ATTORNEYS WHICH IS PRE PAID LEGAL. AND THEY SAID THAT I SHOUD DEFINITILY HAVE AN ATTORNEY. DUDE I DIDN T READ YOU YOUR MIRANDA RIGHTS HAVE I? THAT S WHAT THEY SAID. WELL LET ME ASK YOU THIS THEN? THIS IS DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU RE UNDER ARREST? I I DON T I DON T KNOW I DIDN T EVEN THINK IT WAS THAT I I DIDN T I DIDN T EVEN THINKING YESTERDAY BUT I DON T KNOW WHERE SHES AT AND SHE AINT BACK YET. K SO YOU DON T KNOW IF YOU VE YOU YOU DON T KNOW IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR UNDER ARREST OR NOT? I FEEL LIKE YOU GUYS ARE I MEAN I ALREADY TOLD YOU GUYS EVERYTHING I CAN THINK AND I HAVENT OH AND I ACTUALLY DID THINK OF ONLY ONE THING SHE HAS ANOTHER FRIEND THAT I WASN T EVEN THINKIN OF THAT S ONE OF HER CLOSEST FRIENDS IS KIERCY. WELL LET ME EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO YOU JOSH BUT I CAN T EVEN THINK STRAIGHT. UM K LET ME EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO YOU YOUR NOT UNDER ARREST? IF YOU WERE UNDER ARREST I WOULD HAVE CAME TO YOUR HOME I WOULD OF PUT HAND CUFFS ON AND I WOULD HAVE BROUGHT YOU HERE? UM SO UNDERSTAND THAT RIGHT NOW YOU RE NOT UNDER ARREST FOR ANYTHING? UM THE PROBLEM AND THE WHAT WERE INVESTIGATING IS WHAT? A MISSING PERSON RIGHT? II

3 YOUR RIGHT BUT WHAT IF (INAUDIBLE) AND THAT MISSING PERSON BEING YOUR WIFE. AND INITIALLY THIS ALL TURNED OUT TO BE BASICALLY MISSING PEOPLE AN ENTIRE FAMILY AND THAT S WHY WE WERE NOTIFIED? AND THAT S WHY WE WERE AT YOUR HOME THAT S WHY WE BRE THE WINDOW INTO YOUR HOME TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THERE WAS ANYBODY IN THERE THAT THEY WERE,? AND THIS REPORT CAME FROM YOUR MOM WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY VERY CONCERNED AND IT WAS STARTED BY THE DAYCARE PROVIDER. BY THE WAY SHE HAS A KEY TO MY HOUSE. THE DAYCARE PROVIDER HAS A KEY SO I DON T KNOW WHY THEY WHY THEY HAD TO BREAK THE WINDOW WHEN SHE STARTED IT WELL AND SHE HAD A KEY. WELL THAT WAS NOT BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION OBVIOUSLY UM SO THE CONCERN HERE IS OBVIOUSLY AND YOU YOU MENTIONED THAT WE TALKED (INAUDIBLE) AND BY THE WAY I DIDN T (INAUDIBLE) WE SPE YESTERDAY GOT SOME GENERAL STUFF FROM YOU ALRIGHT. I MEAN WHAT I MEAN WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? DO YOU NOT WANT US TO TALK TO YOU DO YOU NOT WANT US TO TALK TO ANYBODY AND JUST LEAVE YOU ALONE AND HOPE SHE SHOWS UP? NO NO I DON T IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT US TO DO? NO I MEAN IM JUST TRYIN TO DO MY JOB YOU KNOW WHAT IM SAYING. II

4 WHO S THE CLOSEST PERSON TO HER? (INAUDIBLE) THAT S ME WHO? THAT S ME EXACTLY SO YOU RE TELLING ME YOU THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME IN HERE AND TALK TO ME AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. (INAUDIBLE) SO WE CAN TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE POTENTIALLY SHE COULD BE? THEY THEY TOLD ME THAT THAT I SHOULD HAVE AN ATTORNEY CAUSE YOU DON T KNOW WHAT YOU DON T KNOW WHATS GOING ON THEY SAID THAT IM YOU KNOW PRETTY MUCH IN OVER MY HEAD. HMMM YOUR IN OVER YOUR HEAD BECAUSE YOUR WIFE IS MISSING? CAUSE CAUSE YOU GUYS ARE ALREADY TRYING TO TRAP ME ON LITTLE THINGS LIKE MY HANDS FOR ONE. TAKING PICTURES OF YOUR HANDS SHOWIN THAT THERES NO SERIOUS INJURIED TO YOUR HANDS IS TRAPPING YOU HOW? WELL YOU GUYS WERE DOING IT YOUR TELLING ME YOUR LIKE IMPLYING. I ASKED YOU WHERE YOU GOT THINK NICK ON YOUR ON YOU RE A KNUCKLE. WELL I AND YOU EXPLAINED THAT IT WAS DRY SKIN MAKES SENSE. IT ISNT DRY SKIN I WORK I MEAN I I JUST WORK. LIKE I SAID YOUR YOU DON T HAVE TO BE HERE IF YOU DON T WANT TO BE HERE YOU CAN LEAVE I DIDN T FORCE YOU TO COME HERE AND IM NOT FORCING YOU TO STAY? IF YOU DON T WANT TO TALK YOU CAN LEAVE. (INAUDIBLE) I THINK I YOUR NOT UNDER ARREST I HAVENT READ YOU (INAUDIBLE) I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO TALK BUT I THINK IT MIGHT BE A II

5 GOOD IDEA TO HAVE AN AN ATTORNEY TO. WHATS AN ATTORNEY GONNA DO FOR YA? I DON T KNOW. ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS FOR YA I DON T NEED THE ANSWERS FROM AN ATTORNEY I NEED THE ANSWERS FROM THE HUSBAND THAT CLOSEST TO UM THIS MISSING PERSON TO SUSAN YOU KNOW HER BETTER THEN I DO. YOU KNOW HER BETTER THEN ANYBODY BECAUSE YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN LIVING TOGETHER YOUR MARRIED YOU TALK TO EACH OTHER EVERY DAY RIGHT? YEP WELL WAIT A SEC ILL BE RIGHT BACK. DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES. HELLO HELLO CAN YOU HEAR ME? HELLO CAN YOU HEAR ME? I CAN HEAR YOU BUT IF IF YOU CANT HEAR ME YOU MUST BE (INAUDIBLE) ARE YOU THERE? TALK TO YOU IN A MINUTE. DOOR OPENS... UK: HI OH HELLO CAN I BORROW A PEN PLEASE? UK: LET ME GET YOU ONE GO AHEAD HAVE A SEAT AND ILL DO YOU NEED PAPER OR? WELL I HAVE A PAPER. UK: UH HUH SO I JUST NEED A PEN. UK: SURE GO AHEAD MAKE YOURSELF COMFORTABLE ILL GET YOU A PEN. THANKS DOOR CLOSES DOOR OPENS... II

6 UK: HERE YOU GO. THANK YOU UK: YOUR WELCOME. DOOR CLOSES HELLO I WAS TRYIN TO TALK TO YOU BUT I COULDN T HEAR ANYTHING I MEAN YOU COULDN T HEAR ME THAT S WHAT I MEANT TO SAY APPARENTLY I GUESS I I COULD HEAR YOU IS THIS IS THIS HER BOSSES NUMBER ALRIGHT WHAT IS THAT? OH MAN HOLD ON THIS PEN ISNT WORKING (INAUDIBLE) OH COME ON. DOOR OPENS THIS PEN DOESN T WORK. DOOR CLOSES DOOR OPENS... UK: HOWS THAT WORKING? UM HOLD ON LET ME SEE YES. UK: THANKS DOOR CLOSES. WHATS THE NUMBER? DOOR OPENS AND CLOSES. (INAUDIBLE) I GUESS (INAUDIBLE) DO YOU HAVE YOUR CAMERA? I DON T HAVE A CAMERA. SO ARE YOU DONE WITH YOUR PHONE CALL? THAT S ALL I NEEDED. OH ILL ILL TALK TO YOU LATER BYE. SORRY YOUR THROWIN ME OFF WITH THAT HEADSET DUDE. SORRY II

7 DO YOU NEED THIS ANYMORE? DO YOU NEED TO WRITE DOWN ANYTHING ELSE? NOT THIS MINUTE. BUT I FIGURED I BETTER STUCK IT THERE BEFORE I ACCIDENTLY SLIP IT IN MY POCKET YOU KNOW? NO PROBLEM SO UM SO BACK TO BEING HERE DO YOU WANT TO ME ABOUT YOUR WIFE AND ABOUT YOU? IVE IVE ALREADY TOLD YOU. (INAUDIBLE) WHOLE SITUATION. IVE ALREADY TOLDYOU EVERYTHING I CANT THINK OF ANYTHING AND I JUST YOU KNOW IVE TOLD THAT HAVING AN ATTORNEY IS A BETTER IDEA. WELL ATTORNEYS NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE IM NOT GONNA HAVE YOU CALL AND HAVE AN ATTORNEY COME UP HERE AND GO THROUGH THE WHOLE ATTORNEY (INAUDIBLE) BECAUSE YOUR NOT UNDER ARREST? WHAT WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I MEAN (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) YOU USE AN ATTORNEY WHAT DO YOU USE AN ATTORNEY FOR? WHEN YOUR BEING CHARGED CRIMINALLY FOR SOMETHING CORRECT? YOU USE AN ATTORNEY FOR IF YOUR INVOLVED IN A CIVIL LAWSUIT RIGHT? ALRIGHT WERE NOT DOING ANY OF THAT RIGHT? NO YOUR NOT UNDER ARREST YOUR NOT BEING CHARGED FOR ANYTHING. SO AN ATTORNEY IS NOT I MEAN THE ATTORNEY IS NOT AN ISSUE I MEAN THAT S THAT S NOT AN ISSUE THE ISSUE IS THAT YOU YOU HAVE A WIFE THAT S MISSING II

8 THAT S THE ISSUE THAT S THE CONCERN AND THAT S WHY I DON T UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR WORRIED ABOUT HAVIN AN ATTORNEY BECAUSE IM SIMPLY JUST WANTIN TO WE SPE LAST NIGHT BUT WE DIDN T GO INTO ANY A WHOLE LOT OF DETAILS I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS STILL ALRIGHT WE NEED TO FIND YOUR WIFE I WOULD THINK THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO YOU KNOW HELP ME FIND YOUR WIFE? WHAT WHAT KIND OF QUESTIONS ARE THEY STILL? I WANT TO GO OVER UM YOU KNOW ALL OF HER FRIENDS AGAIN I WANT TO GO OVER WHO SHE TALKS TO I WANT TO GO OVER HER WORK HISTORY I WANT TO GO OVER WHERE YOU GUYS HAVE LIVED THERES ALL KINDS OF THINGS DO DO YOU NOT WANT TO FIND YOUR WIFE? I I DO. YOU DO? WHY ARE YOU MAKING THIS SO DIFFICULT THEN? TO YOU KNOW LETS GO IF IF THAT S THE KIND OF QUESTIONS I GUESS ITS FINE WILL JUST TRY IT YOU KNOW? WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT? WHAT ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT? YOU GUYS YOU KNOW HAVE IMPLIED SOME THINGS AND SO IT CONCERNS ME. WE VE IMPLIED WHAT? WELL YOU VE IMPLIED THAT MY HANDS HAVE SOME KIND OF DEFENSIVE WOUNDS ON EM. JUST BECAUSE THERE ALL CUT UP AND THAT S JUST THAT S JUST THE WAY THEY ARE. SO IT SHOULDN T BE ANYTHING YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THEN RIGHT? I MEAN IF I HAVE DRY HANDS AND MY HANDS WERE NICK D UP LIKE THAT BECAUSE THERE DRY HANDS I DON T THINK I WOULD BE II

9 WORRIED ABOUT IT. WELL GO AND ASK YOUR QUESTIONS I MEAN DO DO WE NOT HAVE A JOB TO DO? NO GO AHEAD AND A BY THE WAY UM GO AND ASK THE QUESTIONS. K AND YOU UNDERSTAND YOU DON T HAVE TO BE HERE RIGHT? AND YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT? IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE YOU CAN LEAVE AT ANYTIME. ALRIGHT YOUR NOT UNDER ARREST IM NOT DETAINING YOU? IF YOU DON T WANT TO BE HERE YOU CAN LEAVE IF YOU DON T WANT TO TALK IM JUST SIMPLY SAYIN THAT I WANT TO FIND YOUR WIFE. I WANT I WANT TALK BUT I JUST WANT TO TALK BUT IM GETTING SCARED. WELL I MEAN IF YOU HAVENT DONE NOTHING WRONG JOSH IF YOU DIDN T DO ANYTHING WRONG THERES NOTHING TO BE SCARED ABOUT RIGHT? WELL IM SCARED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITES. WHATS HAPPENED. WELL IM IM WORRIED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES OF WHAT HAPPENED TO CAUSE I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE SHES AT AND YOU DON T EITHER AND THAT S WHY I NEED YOUR HELP. ALRIGHT GO AHEAD AND ASK THE QUESTIONS. LETS START OFF ON HOW LONG YOU VE LIVED HERE UM HOW LONG HAVE YOU GUYS LIVED IN UTAH? ABOUT FIVE YEARS. WHEN DID YOU GUYS II

10 LETS SEE WAS IT 2009 MAYBE 6 YEARS NOW IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS MAYBE IT WAS 3 LATE DECEMBER NOVEMBER DECEMBER OF 03 I THINK WE CAME. DECEMBER OF 2003 IT SEEMS LIKE IT. IS WHEN YOU GUYS MOVED HERE? I MEAN THAT S THE BEST THAT I CAN RECALL. WHERE DID YOU GUYS MOVE FROM? A WASHINGTON WA WASHINGTON STATE. WHERE IN WASHINGTON STATE? UM A WE LIVED IN YACAMA WE (INAUDIBLE) RETIREMENT FACILITY. UM LETS SEE UM ACTUALLY ACTUALLY WE A WE MET AN A THEY CALL IT INSTITUTE OF RELIGION. THAT S WHERE YOU GUYS ACTUALLY MET? WELL TECHNICALLY NO. INSTITUTE OF RELIGION. BUT THAT S WHEN WE MET FOR REAL. IS THAT IN WASHINGTON STATE? IN TACOMA. HOW OLD WERE YA? (INAUDIBLE) WHEN WAS THAT WHAT YEAR? 2000 ALRIGHT WHEN DID YOU GUYS GET MARRIED? WHAT YEAR DID YOU GET MARRIED? A 2000 A IT S DRAWING A BLANK I THINK IT WAS 2000 BUT EITHER THAT OR IT WAS II

11 AND IT WAS IN APRIL. APRIL? A ACTUALLY APRIL 6 TH SO YOU GUYS MET IN THE INSTITUTE OF RELIGION IN WASHINGTON STATE YOU GUYS GOT MARRIED IN APRIL OF 2000 OR 2001 RIGHT? AND YOU GUYS LIKED IN YACAMA. A ACTUALLY SORRY I WAS GOING BACKWARDS UM WE LIVED IN TACOMA. IN HER APARTMENT AND THEN WE LIVED IN I THINK A SPANAWAY IN AN APARTMENT I THINK WE MOVED TO YACAMA A TIME OR TWO WE STAYED WITH FAMILY BOTH HER PARENTS AND MY DAD UM A THEN WE MOVED TO YACAMA BECAUSE MANAGING A RETIREMENT FACILITY. AND THEN WE MOVED TO OLYMPIA MANAGING ANOTHER RETIRMENT FACILITY AND THEN WE MOVED TO A I THINK THAT S WHEN WE MOVED TO UTAH. (INAUDIBLE) AND YOU SAID THAT WAS UM WHEN WAS THAT A 2003? RIGHT? DECEMEBER OF I THINK SO. IT SEEMS LIKE 2004 MARCHISH WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE. WHICH HOUSE DID YOU BUY? WELL THAT S THE HOUSE. SO WHEN YOU MOVED HERE TO UTAH YOU BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN SARAH CIRCLE? (INAUDIBLE) STAYED WITH FAMILY UNTIL THEN. WHICH FAMILY DID YOU STAY WITH? MY SISTER. JENNIFER? WAS JENNIFER LIVING WITH A YOUR MOM AT THE TIME OR II

12 WAS SHE LIVING AWAY FROM YOUR MOM OR DO DO DO THEY LIVE TOGETHER? NO THEY THEY LIVE TOGETHER BUT THEY DIDN T AT THE TIME. OH SHE ONLY MOVED HERE MY MOM MAYBE LAST YEAR. OH ALRIGHT SO WHAT BROUGHT YOU GUYS TO UTAH. JUST UM IM SORRY WHAT DID YOU SAY? WHAT BROUGHT YOU GUYS TO UTAH? A JUST GETTING AWAY AND GETTING STOP NOT TO FAR FROM FAMILY BUT GETTING A LITTLE FARTHER FROM FAMILY YOU KNOW. WHERE DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL? WHERE DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE? DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE? UM THAT WAS BEFORE WE MET BUT I WENT TO THE UW, PEARCE COLLEGE AND THE EASTERN WASHINGTON. AT DIFFERENT TIMES. DO ANY SPORTS? OR WHAT WAS DID YOU GET A DEGREE THERE? WHAT DID YOU GET A DEGREE IN? A ASSOCIATES AND THEN I GOT A BUSINESS DEGREE. ALRIGHT SO YOU GUYS BOUGHT SO YOU MOVED HERE IN 2003 STAYED WITH YOUR SISTER FOR A LITTLE WHILE THEN YOU VE LIVED THERE EVER SENSE? RIGHT? WHAT UM WHAT WERE YOUR GUYS EMPLOYERS WHEN YOU MOVED HERE IN UTAH? NONE YOU DIDN T HAVE A JOB AND SARAH DIDN T SUSAN DIDN T HAVE A JOB? SO WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST EMPLOYERS YOURS AND SUSANS? II

13 (INAUDIBLE) WHICH IS FIDELITY IT S OUR TEMP AGENCY. A TEMP AGENCY? THAT WAS FOR YOU? BOTH FOR BOTH OF YA? WE BOTH WERE WE WORKED IN DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS I ONLY LASTED AWHILE MAYBE A MONTH CAUSE IT WAS DATA ENTRY. THAT DOESN T SOUND VERY FUN DOES IT.? NO AND SPEED IS NOT MY SPECIALITY. AND UM EXPLAIN TO ME IN MORE DETAILS AS FAR AS WHERE YOU GUYS GOT JOBS AFTER THAT YOU AND HER. WELL SHE SHE WORKED FOR FIDELITY AND KEEPT WORK AND KEPT WORKIN THERE. UM I THINK I MIGHT HAVE STARTED REAL ESTATE AFTER THAT. WHEN DID SHE LEAVE FIDELITY? A SHE SHE GOT PREGNANT AND AFTER THE BABY SHE STAYED HOME. AND THAT WAS WHEN? UM I MEAN A I MEAN OH WHEN WAS THE BABY BORN? WHEN SHE STOPPED WHEN SHE STOPPED WORKING? OH (INAUDIBLE) IN JANUARY 19 STOPPED WORKING SO WHEN DID SHE STOP WORKING FIDELITY? PROBABLY A MONTH OR TWO AFTER HE VACATION I GUESS. HER VACATION? A FMLA. FAMILY (INAUDIBLE) SO 2005? AFTER HAVING THE CHAR UM (INAUDIBLE) II

14 IT SEEMS NO NO CHARLIE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT S ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. ALRIGHT AND THEN A YOU SAY YOU STARTED REAL ESTATE AT THAT TIME? UM I I WENT TO A STRINGHAM AND WHO DID YOU START WORKING WITH THEN? A PRUDENTIAL. AND DID YOU JUST STAY WITH PRUDENTIAL OR DID YOU WHAT DID YOU DO NO I JUST HOW LONG DID YOU STAY WITH PRUDENTIAL? THEY TAKE TOO MUCH ON COMMISSION. I WAS THERE NINE MONTHS MAYBE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND THEN I SWITCHED TO HOMENET AND UM DESCRIBE HOMENET MORE TO ME I DON T UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT IS. IS THAT A COMPANY? IT S JUST A BRER COMPANY. BRER? HE HAS AN OFFICE THAT YOU KNOW PEOPLE CAN COME IN AND USE AND HE HAS CUBICLES SOME PEOPLE RENT THEIR CUBICLES BUT I DIDN T NEED TO AT PRU AT A PRUDENTIAL THEY THEY HAVE CUBICLES BUT THEY CHARGE % OF THE COMMISSION. OH REALLY WHEN THEY REALLY DON T DO ANYTHING. THEY JUST PROVIDE YOU A WORK SPACE. HOMENET CHARG CHARGED VERY LITTLE AND THEY DON T REALLY DO ANYTHING EITEHR. I MEAN THEY DO AS MUCH AS PRUDENTIAL I MEAN EVERYTHING ON THE II

15 LIST THEY DO. HMMM SO (INAUDIBLE) SO IT S (INAUDIBLE) IT S A NO BRAINER FOR ME AND AND THE ONLY REASON I WOULD STAY IS IF THEY HAD A PR A REPUTATION. RIGHT SO HOMENET IS BASICALLY JUST A PLACE LIKE A HOMEBASE FOR YOUR COMPANY? UM IT S JUST A COMPANY. (INAUDIBLE) IS THIS YOUR OWN COMPANY? HOMENETS A (INAUDIBLE) YOUR REAL ESTATE? NO YOUR REAL ESTATE YOUR DOING REAL ESTATE SO OH AS AN AGENT HERES WHAT THEY DO THEY HAVE A THEY HAVE AGENTS AND BRERS. YOU HAVE TO WORK UNDER A BRER OR ELSE YOU CANT WORK. RIGHT UM SO I JUST PICKED ONE AND LIKE I SAY HOMENET I JUST SOME HOW RAN INTO EM AND THEN FOUND OUT THERE COMMISSION STRUCTURE AND I WAS LIKE NO BRAINER. RIGHT YOU D MAKE MORE MONEY. (INAUDIBLE) UM AND IT AND IT REALLY DIDN T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE BECAUSE I I AND I ACTUALLY WAS TELLIN MY CLIENTS DID DID DO YOU KNOW WHAT COMPANY I WORK FOR NO. THEY DON T CARE THERE REPUTATION OBVIOUSLY WASN T HELPIN ME A WHOLE LOT. II

16 SO I BECAUSE YOU JUST BASICALLY A WAS THAT THE UM JOSH JOSH POWELL REALTY RIGHT? GOT YA. UM SO AND I ACTUALLY HAVE A BRER LICENSE NOW MYSELF. OH DO YA? GOOD FOR YOU. AND IM (INAUDIBLE) IS THAT DIFFICULT TO GET? WELL IM ACTIVE BUT IM I TURN PEOPLE AWAY. WHY? IM TO TO BUSY AND I DON T FEEL LIKE I CAN WORK A FORTY HOUR JOB AND SERVE EM AND SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN. OR THERE GREEDY ENOUGH TO TAKE THE MONEY AND I JUST I JUST AM I I JUST CANT DO IT TO EM. RIGHT I MEAN SO WHEN SHE UM SO SUSAN QUITS WORKIN IN 2005 AND YOU GUYS HAVE A CHILD DOES SHE GO BACK TO WORK? I DON T THINK SHE WORKED FOR A YEAR AND HALF OR TWO YEARS OR A PROBABLY A YEAR YEAR AND A HALF UM I JUST I CANT EVEN REMEMBER. I THINK OH SHE WENT BACK TO WORK FOR FIDELITY FOR AWHILE I THINK SOMEONE PAID THE INSURANCE. SO YOU THINK SHE WENT BACK TO WORK AT FIDELITY? I THINK SO I I JUST AM TRYIN TO REMEMBER HOW ALL THIS FIT TOGETHER SHE UM SHE WE HAD INSURANCE ON BOTH KIDS. II

17 AS I RECALL I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN FIDELITY AND THEN AFTER THE OTHER BABY YOU KNOW SHE UM A LETS SEE AFTER SHE WENT I THINK SHE TO A YEAR OFF OR SOME AMOUNT OF TIME OFF. IN FACT I THINK IT WAS A YEAR. UM K CAUSE I JUST REMEMBER SHE COULDN T BACK AND WORK FOR FIDELITY AND THAT S WHY SHE ENDED UP AT WELLS FARGO. SO WHEN DID SHE GO WORK FOR WELLS FARGO? UM ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO MAYBE. I THINK MAYBE JANUARY 15 TH OR SOMETHING? I DON T KNOW OH AND THEN I WORKED FOR A I WORKED FOR A DUDE IN ACCOUNTING FOR SIX WEEKS. FROM JANUARY 2 ND I THINK IS WHEN I STARTED. BUT HE WAS KIND OF A SHISTER AND SO I DIDN T WANT TO STAY HE I MEAN HE HE WASN T REALLY BUT HIS CLIENTS WERE AND HE WAS WILLING TO LO THE OTHER WAY AND IM GOIN I DON T THINK SO HE HAD A DUDE THAT WAS GALL WHAT WAS IT THERE WAS A GUY RUNNING A BUSINESS. SO DID YOU JUST I THINK HE WAS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT A OR ASKING THEM TO CHANGE THINGS YOU KNOW FOR AN AUDITOR. RIGHT II

18 OR SOMETHING AND UM SO DID YOU JUST WORK FOR THEM FOR TIME AND THEN GO TO (INAUDIBLE) I CANT REMEMBER (INAUDIBLE) ANYTHING ELSE THAT DROVE ANOTHER BUSINESS OUT OF BUSINESS. BUT DID YOU JUST STAY WITH THEM FOR A SHORT TIME AND THEN GO TO ASPEN LOGISTICS AFTER THAT? WHATS ASPEN LOGISTICS TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT? UM THERE THERE TRACKING LOGISTICS. BASICALLY THEY HAVE A WAREHOUSE, RACKING, FORKLIFTS AND DOOR TRUCK DOORS AND THEY JUST MOVE IT IN MOVE IT OUT, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THEM? SOMETIMES ILL (INAUDIBLE) DOCK IT INTO ANOTHER TRUCK. UM I I PROGRAM I PROGRAM THEIR WEBSITE. ALRIGHT UM SO WHAT ARE SOME HOBBIES THAT A THAT YOU AND SUSAN ARE INTERESTED IN? UM WELL I I LIKE WOOD WORKING. AND ART AND I USUALLY I LIKE WORKIN ON THE HOUSE YOU KNOW FIXIN BUILD OH NOT FIXING BUT BUILDING THE DECK AND THINGS LIKE THAT YOU KNOW? SUSAN LIKES ART. SHE LIKES WHAT? SHE SHE LIKES ART. II

19 OH ART SHE LIKES CROCHETING UM SHE LIKES FACEBO (LAUGHING) IF YOU CAN CALL THAT A HOBBY, THAT S MOST PEOPLE UM SHE LIKES OUR KIDS AND YOU KNOW BEING WITH THEM WELL AND OBVIOUSLY I DO TO. ABSOLUTELY UM WE JUST LIKE TO GO TO USUALLY THE CHEAP PLACES NOT ALWAYS BUT UM WE GOT A ZOO MEMBERSHIP. ANYWAY WE GO THERE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE TIMES SIX OR I DON T KNOW UM UM SO THOSE ARE SOME HOBBIES THAT SHE LIKES SHE ENJOYS OH AND WE GO WE EAT OUT ON KIND OF A REGULAR BASIS. WHAT? SOMETIMES WE EAT OUT OH A LITTLE BIT MORE OFTEN THEN WE SHOULD. I KNOW DON T WE ALWAYS LIKE EATIN OUT ALWAYS TASTES BETTER DON T IT? KIND OF IT KIND OF DOES. UNLESS IF YOU GET A BAD RESTRAUNANT. THEY USUALLY PUT ENOUGH FAT IN IT THAT WE DON T PUT IN IT THAT THAT S BETTER TASTING. EXACTLY BUT UM IT S ALSO CHEAPER. SOMETIMES CAUSE WE GO TO DEL TACO. II

20 FOR TUESDAY AND WE CAN EAT OUR WHOLE FAMILY FOR FIVE BUCKS REALLY? WOW $4.70 UM WHAT ARE SOME OTHER THINGS? $4.70 FOUR FIVE FOUR OR FIVE BUCKS PLUS TAX. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT SHE LIKES TO DO? I MEAN WE TALKED ABOUT SOME HOBBIES WHAT ARE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT SHE LIKES TO DO? UM MAKEUP SHE HAS LIKE SHE HAS A CLUB OR SOMETHING. OR NOT A SHE JUST HAS FRIENDS THAT SHE DOES IT WITH. SHE HAS A SHE HAD A FOOD PARTY. JUST WANTED TO HAVE EVERYONE OVER TO TASTE FOOD SO WE DID WE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF FOOD FROM THAT. TELL ME EVERYTHING ABOUT HER THINGS THAT SHE LIKED TO DO PLACES SHE LIKED TO GO PLACES THAT SHE LIKED TO REVISIT THAT SHE WOULD FREQUENTLY GO TO? UM A SHE WOULD GO TO HER FRIENDS HOUSES MOST OF WHICH I ALREADY TOLD YOU. WHICH WHICH FRIENDS HOUSE WOULD SHE GO TO THE MOST? SHE GOES TO THEM ALL BUT THERES GOTTA BE MORE OF A LIKE A PERSON THAT S MORE FREQUENT I MEAN WE ALL HAVE A WE ALL HAVE FRIENDS. IT ROTATES. IT KIND OF LIKE IT KIND OF ALMOST ROTATES. A SOMETIMES IT S ONE SOMETIMES IT S ANOTHER (INAUDIBLE) WHO HAS IT BEEN THE LAST THREE MONTHS? II

21 UM THE PETERSONS SHES TALKED TO QUIT A BIT. IF HOW ABOUT GOING TO THERE HOMES AND VISITING WHO WOULD BE THE MOST FREQUENT? IVE FOUND HER IVE FOUND HER OVER THERE A FEW TIMES. UM AND IVE HAD TO GO PICK HER UP CAUSE OF WELL IT WAS JUST DARK AND I DIDN T WANT HER TO WALK WITH THE KIDS HOME THOUGH ALL THE WAY HOME YOU KNOW? UM JUDY WADE COMES OVER ALL THE TIME. JUDY WADE COMES OVER TO YOUR HOUSE? AND THEN SHE GOES OVER THERE SOMETIMES. UM DEBBIE THE DAY DAYCARE LADY. DEBBIE DAYCARE PROVIDER. SHES BEEN HANGIN OUT WITH HER REGULARLY K LIKE COUPLE TIMES A MONTH OR SOMETHING IT SEEMS LIKE. UM K WHAT UM UM SHE SHE USE TO GO OVER TO KIRSTIES ALL THE TIME BUT I DON T KNOW IF THEY REALLY GET TOGETHER IN PERSON A LOT OH AND SHE LIKES TO GO TO THE CROCHET CLUB. THEY DO HAVE A CROCHET CLUB IN THE CHURCH, UM AND SHE GOES TO ALL KINDS OF ACTIVITIES WITH THE CHURCH UM SHE LIKES TO SING IN THE CHOIR. II

22 OH AND THAT SOMETIMES SHE LEAVES AGAIN FOR THAT USUALLY SUNDAYS SOMETIMES WEEKNIGHTS. UM SHE LIKES TO GO OUT WITH GIRLS NIGHTS OH A TARA ALLRED AND ALLISON ST. LOUIS I FORGOT TO MENTION THEM I DON T KNOW IF YOU HOW CLOSE WAS SHE TO THEM? UM THEY ALL SEEM LIKE THERE CLOSE WITH HER. LET S GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK UM GIVE ME A LIST OF CHECKING ACCOUNTS CREDIT CARDS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE. WELL SHE HAS IT SEEMS LIKE SHE HAS A COUPLE OF ACCOUNTS AT UM SO IS THAT GONNA BE JOINT OR INDIVIDUAL? UM I THINK THERES A JOINT AND AN INDIVIDUAL ONE OF EACH. K SO A WE HAVE RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS THERE. IM JUST TALKING LIKE CREDIT CARDS OR CHECKING ACCOUNTS. OH OH UM WE HAVE AT THE THAT S A LONG TIME CREDIT UNION FOR US. SO THAT S JOINT? A YES. UM I THINK THERE MIGHT BE TWO ACCOUNTS THERE CURRENTLY I THINK WE HAD A JOINT AND A AND I OPENED UP A PERSONAL ONE. ALRIGHT. II

23 UM IVE GOT SEVERAL BUSINESS ACCOUNTS THERE.SHE DOESN T ACCESS THOSE AT ALL. UM WELL AND I I DON T THINK SHE HAS ANY ACCOUNTS AT CHASE. I GOT LIKE MAYBE FOUR OR FIVE I DON T KNOW. I GOT A COUPLE FOR BUSINESS I THINK AT LEAST I THINK I GOT ONE FOR MY REALESTATE BRERAGE. THAT WAS REQUIRED THAT S JUST EMPTY. AND I GOT ONE THAT S JUST A PERSONAL ACCOUNT BECAUSE THEY GAVE ME TWO HUNDRED BUCKS OR A HUNDRED OR TWO HUNDRED I DON T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS. (INAUDIBLE) I REMEMBER SEEING THAT ADVERTISEMENT. AND I WAS LIKE WHATEVER AND THEN THERE LIKE YOU HAVE TO DIRECT DEPOSIT, OH FINE SO I PUT FIFTY BUCKS IN THERE EVERY MONTH. I USE TO A GET THE I DON T GET THE SAME THING. WELL IT S ACTUALLY NOT A BAD BANK I I HAVE BEEN HAPPY WITH I WAS WITH WITH MY BUSINESS BUT I IVE BEEN HAPPY WITH YOU KNOW. RIGHT THERE THERE EQUIVALENT TO EXCEPT NOT AS CASUAL SO WE GOT WHAT ELSE. II

24 I CAN T THINK OF ANY OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. DID YOU LO IN HER WALLET AND SEE IF ANY OF THAT OR? UM AND SEE IF THERES ANY OTHERS? I SEEN THAT THERE WAS A UM SHE I THINK SHES GOT A COUPLE ACCOUNTS AT HONESTLY IF SHE WORKS THERE THEY GIVE HER EVERYTHING FREE. HOW BOUT CREDIT CARDS. YOU KNOW OH A UM IS THAT JOINT? NO YOURS OR HERS? IT S HERS. OH AND I THINK SHES GOT A CARD. K SO HOW BOUT GAS CARDS? I DON T THINK (INAUDIBLE) FOR GAS COMPANIES I I I JUST CANT THINK OF ANY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE. I HAVE ONE YOU HAVE ONE. I THINK IVE HAD IT FOR TWELVE I MEAN I CANT SAY HOW LONG BUT IVE HAD IT FOR A LONG TIME? IS THAT WHAT YOU USE TO GET GAS. DO YOU USE IT TO GET YOUR GAS? WHATS THAT THROUGH? UM II

25 ANY OTHER CREDIT CARDS? A I HAVE A ANYTHING ELSE? I JUST CAN T THINK OF ANY. ALRIGHT SO OUT OF ALL THE ACCOUNTS. OH AND I HAVE HER CARD CAUSE SHE WELL I DON T HAVE MY PIN. OH AND SO WHEN I NEED TO GO SHOPPING AT WINCO WHICH IS A BRAND NEW STORE OVER THERE IN WEST VALLEY UM THEY DON T TAKE CREDIT SO OH IVE GOT CAUGHT THERE A TIME OR TWO AND IVE HAD TO GO BACK AND GET BASICALLY HER DEBIT CARD CAUSE IT S THE ONLY ONE WE KNOW THE PIN ON. SO YOU HAVE THAT CARD? SHE S AND I I THINK THEY CHARGE A COUPLE BUCKS FOR THE PIN TO RESET. PROBABLY I DIDN T I JUST HAVENT DONE IT CAUSE THAT S THE ONLY STORE I NEED TO HAVE A PIN AND I HAVENT UM I PROBABLY SHOULD GO GET IT RESET. ALRIGHT LETS TALK UM LETS TALK MORE ABOUT UM THESE ARE ALL THE CREDIT CARDS AND CHECKING ACCOUNTS, DEBIT CARDS THAT SHE WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO OR MAY USE. THAT S ALL I COULD THINK OF. RIGHT? THAT S ALL I CAN THINK OF. IF YOU THINK OF ANOTHER ONE JUST LET ME KNOW SO WE CAN JOT IT II

26 DOWN? UM LETS GO BACK TO UM THE AND HER AND YOU UM YOU STATED THAT YOU KNOW SHE LOVED THE KIDS SHE LOVED DOING THINGS WITH THE KIDS A TELL ME MORE ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HER AND AND THE BOYS. UM YOU KNOW SHE SHE LOVES THEM I MEAN SHE WE BOTH READ THEM STORIES UM YOU KNOW WE WE WE JUST WOULD PREFER TO TAKE THEM A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE TO LEAVE THE KIDS HOME AND GET AWAY, AND ITS LIKE WERE THE OPPOSITE OF COURSE WE WORK SO WE DON T WANT TO GET AWAY FROM THEM WE WANT T GET BACK TO THEM. EXACTLY AND THAT S THE WAY SHE SHE IS WITH THE KIDS. JUST UM UM SHE LIKES TO DO ART WITH THEM. A SHE SAVES THEIR LITTLE DRAWINGS WHICH I DO TO BUT UM UM SHES MAKING A BABY BO FOR EM A EACH OF THEM THAT S ALWAYS NICE. OH AND THEN SHE READS (INAUDIBLE) UM SOMETIMES FOR STORIES, UM A SHE ALWAYS LIKES TO BUY THEM TOYS. LIKE AT THE DOLLAR STORE. WHICH IS ANNOYING BECAUSE THEY SUCK (INAUDIBLE) DOLLAR QUALITY IM LIKE IF YOUR GONNA BUY A TOY BUY A NICE ONE. K II

27 BUT THEN AGAIN IF SHES GONNA BUY IT EVERYTIME SHE GOES OUT A WHATEVER THE KIDS LIKE IT YOU KNOW. I MEAN UM SHE LIKES TO HELP THEM PICK UP THE TOYS AND LEARN HOW TO DO ALL THESE THINGS YOU KNOW? UM HMM SOMETIMES WE WATCH A MOVIE WITH THEM JUST USUALLY AT HOME SOMETIMES WE GO OUT TO DO IT USUALLY WELL I SAY USUALLY BUT IT S ALMOST ALWAYS AT THE CHEAP THEATRE. CAUSE I I I MEAN CAUSE I JUST WON T DO IT I MEAN THE DAYCARE PROVIDER APPARENTLY TAKES THEM TO THE EXPENSIVE THEATRE. UM AND SHES LIKE IT S TOO DIRTY AND I DON T WANT TO PUT YOUR KIDS IN THAT FILTH I MEAN I DON T WANT TO LET THEM EAT OFF THE FLOOR. THAT WOULD DISGUSTING IN ANY THEATRE BUT I JUST CANT I JUST CANT SEE IT YOU KNOW SO WE BUY EM ON DVD. K A STUFF LIKE THAT. SO SHE ENJOYED BEING WITH KIDS AS WELL AS YOURSELF WHEN YOU GUYS WERENT AT WORK RIGHT? UM K AND WE JUST FIND FAMILY ACTIVITIES OH AND WE GO FEED THE DUCKS ALL THE TIME. UM I HAVE AN RC CAR SOMETIMES WILL GO OUT AND DRIVE THAT ALTHOUGH SHES NOT FOND OF THE RC CAR. WHAT CAN YOU DO? II

28 JP 28 (INAUDIBLE) BUT SHE DOES LOVE THE FACT THAT I HAVE IT SCALED DOWN TO THE KIDS SPEED. RIGHT SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY GRAB THE REMOTE AND DRIVE IT. WHAT DO YOU GUYS DO USUALLY DO WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO DO? WHAT DO YOU DO MOST FREQUENTLY TOGETHER AS A FAMILY WHEN YOU LEAVE THE HOME? I MEANYOU MENTIONED THE ZOO; YOU MENTIONED THE GOING OUT TO EAT? MOVIES? IS THERE ANY OTHER STUFF ANY OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES THAT YOU GUYS FREQUENTLY GO DO? WELL MOSTLY GOING OUT TO EAT. UM WE WE DO THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS. HMMM K AND I ACTUALLY AM I I KINDA HAVE TO GO OUT WITH MY FRIENDS AT WORK UM PARTLY WANT TO PARTLY HAVE TO. WELL I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO IT DOESN T. RIGHT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THAT S ONCE A WEEK BUT ALL EVERY I MEAN WE USUALLY JUST GO AS A FAMILY TO EAT YOU KNOW. WELL SHES GONE OUT TO EAT WHAT ABOUT OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES LIKE ON THE WEEKEND SHE WHAT DO YOU GUYS I MEAN YOU GUYS UM FREQUENT DO YOU GUYS FREQUENTLY LEAVE THE HOME ON THE WEEKENDS OR AND GO OUT AND II

29 DO OUTDOOR ACTIVITIED OVER NIGHT OR DURING THE DAY? I MEAN I I GO CAMPING WITH MY SONS LIKE I I MADE A GOAL (INAUDIBLE) DO IT. AND I DECIDED TO DO IT. WERE COMIN LET S SEE WELL IT S ALMOST THE END OF HOW HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU THINK YOU GUYS WENT CAMPING THIS YEAR? THREE OR FOUR. AND THAT S BUT IT S JUST (INAUDIBLE) (INAUDIBLE) OR OVER THE OVER THE YEAR? JUST SPORADIC I MEAN I THINK LAST YEAR I DID IT TWO OR THREE TIMES. SO YOU SAY THREE OR FOUR TIMES OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR WOULD BE COMMON? UM I TRY TO GO MORE FREQUENTLY BUT I RIGHT A JUST TIME MY KIDS BEG ME AND I I WENT ONCE THIS LAST YEAR SO JUST TIME DOESN T PERMIT REALLY A WHOLE LOT. UM UM I (INAUDIBLE) WE GO TO THE FAIR. HMM K UM WE GO TO THE DIFFERENT KINDA OF THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THE YOU KNOW JUST KIND OF EVENTS. IN THE VALLEY? YOU KNOW AROUND THE VALLEY. UM WE GO DOWN WE WENT DOWN TO THAT A WHEELER FARM. II

30 WENT DOWN THERE A COUPLE TIMES I REALLY LIKE THAT PLACE YOU KNOW ITS NICE K WELL WEVE TALKED QUIT A BIT ABOUT UM ABOUT EVERYBODY YOU, HER, THE KIDS WHAT YOU GUYS LIKE TO DO UM AND I APPRECIATE YOU TALKING WITH ME ABOUT THAT CAUSE IT KIND OF GIVES ME A LITTLE BIT OF INSIGHT AS FAR AS YOU KNOW THE THINGS THAT SHE LIKES TO DO PLACES SHE LIKES TO GO PEOPLE WHO SHE LIKES TO GO VISIT. UM LET S START WITH UM LETS START WITH SUN A LETS START WITH FRIDAY. YOU GUYS DID YOU GUYS BOTH GO TO WORK ON FRIDAY? AND UM IM GUESSING THAT THE KIDS PROBABLY WENT TO DAYCARE? UM LET S START WITH UM YOU TO HER TO WORK ON FRIDAY? WE GET UP IN THE MORNING BUT HOW DOES THAT HOW DID THAT ROUTINE GO DUDE UM BASICALLY WE GET UP IN THE MORNING. WE FEED THE KIDS UM AT LEAST WE TRY. UM LOAD EM UP DROP EM OFF AT DAYCARE. AND THEN I DRIVE DRIVE OVER TO HER WORK AND DROP HER OFF AND THEN I DRIVE TO MY WORK. AND THEN IM THERE THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND THEN SHE A LETS SEE SOMETIMES I GO HOME AFTER WORK AND SOMETIMES I GO STRAIGHT TO HER II

31 WORK CAUSE I WORK IN THE SAME DIRECTION AS HER. IT S PROBABLY ONLY A MILE OUT OF THE WAY. RIGHT AND SHES PRO I MEAN IM PROBABLY MAYBE SEVEN MILES AND SHES PROBABLY TEN WHATEVER IT IS SHES ALITTLE FURTHER. BUT STILL THE SAME DIRECTION. SO AS FAR AS FRIDAY YOU GUYS GO READY DROPPED THE KIDS OFF AT DAYCARE YOU TO HER TO WORK DROPPED HER OFF YOU WENT TO WORK AND THEN DID YOU GO PICK HER UP AND THEN GO HOME OR DID YOU GO HOME GO TO THE DAYCARE? I THINK I PICKED HER UP. SO YOU PICKED HER UP AND THEN WENT I THINK I MIGHT HAVE PICKED UP THE KIDS FIRST THEN PICKED HER UP (INAUDIBLE) IMPORTANT UM BUT THAT S COMMON ROUTINE RIGHT? IS IS WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT AND YOU DO THAT MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY? UM WHAT ABOUT A LETS LETS START LETS START WITH SATURDAY. K K SO UM START SATURDAY WITH ME AND START FROM THE TIME THAT YOU GUYS WE UP TILL LUNCH TIME AND EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU GUYS DID UM SATURDAY MORNING UP UNTIL LUNCH TIME. WENT TO A PARTY OH WE WENT AND DID ACTIVITIES WITH THE BOYS. UM WE WENT TO HOME DEPOT AND THEN WE WENT TO LOWES AND WE II

32 BUILT A I CAN T REMEMBER WHAT WE BUILT THIS TIME A WAGON IT S A WAGON UM WERE DOING A GINGER BREAD HOUSE FROM LOWES I JUST PICKED IT UP AND THEN WE WENT TO A CHURCH PARTY BASICALLY UM BREAKFAST YOU KNOW. A WE ATE PANCAKES AND EGGS OH EGGS AND HASHBROWNS THEY DID SOME ACTIVITIES THE KIDS STARTED MAKIN A CHAIN ANOTHER CHAIN PAPER CHAIN UM UM THAT WAS ABOUT IT AND THEN WE WENT HOME. AND THIS IS BETWEEN MORNING TO NOON? OR LUNCH TIME. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT TWELVE OR TWELVE THIRTY. UM SHE HAD TO WORK IN THE AFTERNOON SO ON SATURDAY? AND SO SHE SHE ACTUALLY SHE STARTED TO DRIVE TO WORK CAUSE SHE HAD THE BOYS WAGON AND SO THEY WERE SCREAMIN ABOUT IT AND SO SHE WAS ONLY A FEW BLOCKS AWAY AND SHE BROUGHT THEM BACK. AND THAT S AFTERNOON OR IS THAT IN THE MORNING? NO THAT WAS NOONISH. SO LET S SO WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE OH AND THEN THE THEN THE TRAFFIC MIGHT HAVE BEEN SLOW BECAUSE OF THE SNOW. WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE BETWEEN FROM THE TIME YOU WE UP UNTIL NOON THAT TO PLACE I MEAN ANY ARGUMENTS ANY DISAGREEMENTS? NO UM ANYTHING LIKE THAT? II

33 UH HUH ALRIGHT SO FROM LETS GO FROM NOON UNTIL BEDTIME ON SATURDAY AND WALK ME THROUGH STEP BY STEP ON FROM NOON UNTIL BEDTIME AND INCLUDE YOU KNOW IF THERES ANY ARGUMENTS DISAGREEMENTS A JOVANNA WAS OVER SATURDAY CAUSE WE TO HER KID AND SHE UM SHE HAS A TEN YEAR OLD AND THEN SHE STAYED OVER TO YOU KNOW HANG OUT AND YOU KNOW SHE WANTS HER KIDS TO SEE HOW TO BUILD A DECK AND ALL THESE LITTLE THINGS YOU KNOW. UM I MEAN THAT WAS BASICALLY IT I MEAN WE JUST HUNG OUT UNTIL SUSAN GOT HOME. WHAT TIME DID SHE LEAVE? UM FOR SOME REASON I WAS THINKIN THAT THAT SHE STAYED LONGER. APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME DID SHE LEAVE FOR WORK? OH SUSAN? SHE A UM NOON. WHAT TIME DID SHE GET HOME? I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN APPROXIMATELY? I THINK IT WAS I THINK SHE WAS YOU KNOW MAYBE ELEVEN THIRTY. AT NIGHT? NO (MUMBLING) MORNING. WHAT TIME DID SHE GET HOME FROM WORK? SIX I GUESS SIXISH II

34 WHAT TIME DID JOVANNA GET THERE ON SATURDAY? TWELVE... AND SHE LEFT AT WHAT TIME? OR ONE UM DID SHE STAY THERE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OR DID SHE JUST PICK UP HER KID AND LEAVE? UM I I ACTUALLY BROUGHT HER KID TO THAT PLACE AND TO THE PARTY AND THEN I PICKED AND I CARRIED HIM AND I DROVE HIM TO MY HOUSE. ALRIGHT SO JOVANNA DIDN T COME AND THEN SHE CAME AND MET US AN HOUR OR SOMETHING LATER MAYBE. AT YOUR HOUSE? AND MAYBE ONE I IT S HARD TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ALRIGHT SO JOVANNA CAME TO YOUR HOUSE ON SATURDAY? AND SHE CAME OVER WHILE SUSAN WAS AT WORK? UM WELL AND DID SHE STAY THER FOR A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME? FIVE FIVE OR SIX HOURS I THINK. SHE STAYED THERE FOR FIVE OR SIX HOURS? AND WHAT DID YOU GUYS DO IN THAT TIME FRAME YOU SAID YOU GUYS JUST WAITED AROUND FOR SUSAN TO GET HOME? NO I JUST OH WORKING ON STUFF II

35 WHAT KIND OF STUFF WERE YOU WORKING ON? UM...WELL BUILDING A PICTURE FRAME JUST TRYING TO CLEAN UP GENERALLY. UM SORRY IT JUST SOUNDS ODD.WHY DID SHE COME OVER AND HELP YOU CLEAN YOUR HOUSE? NO JUST TO DO WORK WOOD WORKING. UM BUT THE PROBLEM IS THERES NO ROOM TO GET ALL THE TOOLS OUT SOMETIMES SO JUST HAVE TO MAKE ROOM SOMETIMES. SO SUSAN GETS HOME AROUND SIX YOU SAY? SATURDAY NIGHT LETS TALK ABOUT FROM THE TIME THAT SHE GOT HOME TO THE TIME YOU GUYS WENT TO BED. TELL ME EVERYTHING YOU GUYS DID THAT NIGHT. WHAT YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT? WHAT YOU ARGUED? YOUR SITTIN HERE THINKIN AND I KNOW YOUR THINKING WE DIDN T WE DIDN T A WE DIDN T WE WERENT ARGUING. I I DIDN T WE HAD A BABYSITTER I THINK HER SON WAS BABYSITTING AND I CANT REMEMBER WHAT I CANT EVEN REMEMBER WHAT WE WERE DOING WITH THE BABYSITTER THERE. SO YOU DON T REMEMBER WHAT YOU GUYS DID FROM SIX O CLOCK TILL YOU GUYS WENT TO BED ON SATURDAY NIGHT. I JUST DON T REMEMBER WHAT ACTIVITY WE WERE DOING. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU REMEMBER FROM THAT NIGHT? UM WELL WE GOT HOME AND ALEX HAD THE KIDS UP WELL SORT OF AND THEY WERE SUPPOSE TO BE IN BED BUT THEY WERENT. UM SHE WANTED THEM IN BED SO WE HAD TO GET THAT DONE UM I THINK WE WATCHED A MOVIE. II

36 PROBABLY SANTA CLAUS TWO. ALRIGHT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FROM THAT NIGHT THAT YOU REMEMBER? UH HUH LETS MOVE ON TO SUNDAY FROM THE TIME THAT YOU WE UP FROM THE TIME YOU GUYS WE UP UNTIL SHE CAME HOME FROM CHURCH LETS TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT TO PLACE WHAT WAS SAID WHAT WAS DONE UM BETWEEN THE TIME YOU WE UP TILL THE TIME SHE GOT HOME FROM CHURCH ON SUNDAY. UM NOT A WHOLE LOT WAS SAID OR DONE IN THE MORNING I MEAN A LOT OF TIMES WE SLEEP IN IN THE MORNING. UM I THINK SHE JUST GOT THE KIDS READY AND LEFT. WHAT TIME? PROBABLY 9:50 I GUESS. IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS A TEN O CLOCK CHURCH. NO PROBLEMS THAT MORNING NO DISAGREEMENTS NO UH HUH TALK ABOUT HER LEAVING GOING AND DOING SOMETHING? NO ANYTHING DURING THE DAY OR THAT NIGHT? WHAT DID YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT THAT MORNING? NO SHE SHE WASN T DID YOU GUYS SPEAK TO EACH OTHER? I DON T EVEN THINK SHE DID THE CHOIR. DID YOU GUYS SPEAK TO EACH OTHER THAT MORNING BEFORE SHE LEFT TO GO TO CHURCH, II

37 I MEAN NOTHING SIGNIFICANT I MEAN WE PROBABLY JUST I MEAN WE DIDN T TALK WE JUST WERE GOING ABOUT OUR DAY YOU KNOW. SO NOTHING WAS SAID TO YOU OUT OF THE ORDINARY FROM HER OR NOTHING OF INTEREST? (MUMBLING) LET ME SEE SHE MIGHT HAVE ASKED IF I WAS GOING TO CHURCH AND I DON T KNOW I DIDN T EVEN FEEL LIKE WALKING. UM BECAUSE YOU CAN T PARK THERE DURING THE STAKE CONFERENCE. SOL SHE GETS HOME ABOUT WHAT TIME DOES SHE GET HOME FROM CHURCH WITH THE BOYS? FIVE OR TEN AFTER TWELVE. SO A LITTLE AFTER TWELVE O CLOCK TWELVE P.M. AND A FROM THAT TIME UM TELL ME WHAT A WHAT TRANSPIRES TELL ME EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS WHEN SHE GETS HOME TELL ME WHAT YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT IF SHE CALLS ANYBODY IF SHE DOES ANYTHING IF SHE LEAVES THE HOUSE. TELL ME TELL ME EVERYTHING THAT TAKES PLACE. UM I WENT TO THE STORE. AND PICKED UP. AFTER SHE GOT HOME? SOME KIND OF FOOD I DON T REMEMBER WHAT UM I ACTUALLY DROVE HER HOME CAUSE I DROVE UP ABOUT THAT TIME AND SHE WAS WALKING WITH THE BOYS AND SHE WAS ONLY A COUPLE BLOCKS FROM HOME BUT I YOU KNOW GOT THEM IN THE CAR. AND DROVE EM HOME. II

38 AND UM AND I WENT TO THE STORE UM IT SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN WINCO. I CAN T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT I BOUGHT, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING TO EAT UM I BOUGHT YOGURT THERE WAS SOMETHING I WAS MISSING ANYWAY I MADE IT ALL OF IT. UM WHEN I GOT BACK I MADE SOME KIND OF AN OMELET. WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE HOUSE WHEN YOU GOT BACK? WHAT WAS SUSAN AND THE BOYS DOING? JUST JUST NORMAL I MEAN THE KIDS WERE PLAYING AND SHE WAS JUST I THINK SHE WAS WATCHING TV. AND SO I MADE AN OMELET AND SOME PANCAKES AND I PUT CREAM CHEESE ON EM I THINK THAT WAS ALL OH AND THEN SHE CALLED JOVANNA UM ANYWAY JOVANNA CAME OVER. SHE HAD SOME PANCAKES TO. UM I GUESS SUSAN WAS FEELING TIRED WHEN SHE GOT HOME FROM CHURCH SO BY THAT TIME SHE DECIDED TO TAKE A NAP MAYBE THREE THREE OR FOUR. K PROBABLY FOUR THEN JOVANNA HANG HUNG OUT FOR AWHILE UM I WAS JUST TRYIN TO GET THE SLEDS AND EVERYTHING READY AND TRYIN TO MAKE SURE I GOT ALL THERE CHANGE OF CLOTHES UM DIDN T REALLY HAVE A PLAN IN MIND SO I WAS TRYING TO PREPARE FOR EVERYTHING YOU KNOW? UM I THINK SHE WE UP AROUND SIX THIRTY A AND THEN WE ATE DINNER AND THEN A MY SON WAS ASLEEP THE TWO YEAR OLD WAS HE DIDN T EVEN EAT HE WAS JUST TOO TIRED II

39 HMMM SO THEN HE SLEPT FOR AWHILE ON HER AND AND THEN THEN HE GOT MOVED IT SEEMS LIKE MAYBE TO THE COUCH AND THEN A THE BED. WHERE WAS SHE NAPPING AT? UM ON THE COUCH. OH UM NO SHE WAS SLEEPING IN OUR BED. UM WHAT TIME DID JOVANNA LEAVE? FIVE OR SIX I DON T KNOW. AND SUSAN WAS ACTUALLY WAS EXCLAIMING EXCLAIMING HOW YOU KNOW HOW MUCH SHE APPRECIATED THE BREAKFAST AND I MEAN THE LUNCH AND DINNER. AND THEN I THINK AFTER THAT I DID TAKE CHARLIE CAUSE I TRY NOT TO BREAK THE PROMISES TO HIM A AND WE WENT SLEDDING WE JUST WENT TO A LOCAL UM WHITTIER WE WERE BY WHITTIER. AND THEN WE WENT HOME. WHAT TIME WAS THAT AT? I THINK WE WERE HOME BY 8:30 OR 9. SOMETHING LIKE THAT I YOU KNOW IT IT WAS JUST TIME TO START STORIES AND TEETH BRUSHING YOU KNOW SO THEN UM I WAS TALKING TO MY SON ABOUT SMORES YOU KNOW HE WAS JUST SUPER EXCITED ABOUT COCOA AND SMORES THERES SNOW. YOU GOTTA EAT COCOA ITS CHRISTMAS AND THEN WE WATCHED A MOVIE WELL NO ACTUALLY THEN WE UM WELL SHE WANTED THE COUCH CLEAN SO I GOT THE RUG DOCTOR WE TRY TO DO SOMETHING EACH WEEK YOU KNOW UM ITS TOO HARD IF II

40 ITS ALL WET AT ONCE YOU KNOW IT DRIES SLOW SO WE UM THEN WE WATCHED A MOVIE AND I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY SANTA CLAUS THREE. UM AND THEN WE A FINISHED UP THE MOVIE AND I TALKED TO HER ABOUT A TAKING THE BOYS TO DO SMORES AND TO TRY OUT THE NEW GENERATOR YOU KNOW? AND SHE LOED MAD I FINISHED PACKING AND I LOADED EM UP AND THEN WE JUST YOU KNOW A JUST LIKE THE MORNING ROUTINE I JUST TRIED TO (INAUDIBLE) AND LEFT. SO WHEN UM SO YOU CLEANED THE COUCH? AND SHE WANTED YOU TO WHAT WAS THE COUCH DIRTY? WAS THERE A STAIN ON THE COUCH OR SOMETHINE? ITS JUST ALL GOOBERS AND SNOT FROM KIDS WHO WIPE THERE NOSE ON IT AND THEY JUST THEY JUST DO BRUTAL THINGS TO THE FURNITURE LIKE THE OTHER COUCH NEEDS IT TO. AND WHEN YOU TALK TO UM SUSAN ABOUT TAKIN THE KIDS AND DOIN SMORES AND GENERATOR TELL ME MORE DETAILS ON THAT CONVERSATION. UM SHE JUST YOU KNOW I TOLD HER THAT I WANTED TO AND SHE JUST SAID (INAUDIBLE) HEATER YOU CANT TAKE THE BOYS OUT IN THE COLD WITHOUT A HEATER. IM LIKE YEP I GOT MY GENERATOR. K AND THAT WAS IT? THAT S BASICALLY I MEAN IT WASN T A LONG CONVERSATION. SHE DIDN T A INQUIRE AS TO WHEN YOU D BE BACK WHEN YOU WERE GOING? WHERE YOU WERE GOING? II

41 I TOLD HER I TOLD HER ID BE BACK I SAID ILL COME BACK TOMORROW MORNING. AND THEN WITH THE SNOW FALL IT I GOT UP A LITTLE LATER IN THE MORNING. THEN I WAS PLANNING PLUS THE BOYS WERE LOVIN IT YOUR KNOW. UM WE KEPT SEEING DEER AND SHEEP. ALL THESE ALL THESE THINGS THAT THEY JUST THEY JUST EAT IT UP YOU KNOW. RIGHT DID YOU MAKE ARRANGEMENTS A DID YOU GUYS A TALK ABOUT ARRANGEMENTS FOR HER GETTING TO WORK. I WAS THINKIN IT WAS GONNA BE SUNDAY AND I DIDN T EVEN THINK ABOUT WORK. AND HER? I GUESS IT DIDN T CROSS HER MIND AT THE TIME. AND THEN WHAT TIME WHAT TIME DID YOU SAY THAT SHE WENT TO BED? PROBABLY TWELVE THIRTYISH WAS THERE ANYTHING SAID BEFORE SHE WENT TO BED ANY DID YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE SHE WENT TO SLEEP. JUST THAT AND SAY GOODNIGHT THAT S ABOUT IT. WHAT UM SORRY (INAUDIBLE) PHONE. WHAT ABOUT A ALRIGHT WAS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS ANY OTHER TALK THROUGHOUT THE DAY THAT I JUST I I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. I JUST CAN T THINK OF ANY. II

42 BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU? NO NO WE DIDN T FIGHT OR ANYTHING. ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS ANY OTHER (INAUDIBLE) NOT ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT? NOTHING SIGNIFICANT I MEAN I THINK SHE WAS CHATTING WITH JOVANNA I I DON T I CAN T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT CONVERSATIONS YOU KNOW. I PROBABLY JUMPED IN A FEW TIMES BUT MOSTLY I WAS JUST MAKING LUNCH. SO I WAS ACTUALLY IN THE OTHER ROOM UM YOU TALKED EARLIER ABOUT UM HOW KIND OF SPORADIC THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND OR THE AFTERNOON YOU WERE UM PACKING THE VEHICLE AND GETTING THINGS READY FOR FOR THIS TRIP UM TELL ME EVERYTHING THAT YOU PACKED AND PUT INSIDE THE VEHICLE. UM A THREE PAIRS OF CLOTHES FOR EACH BOY AND AND FOR ME UM HEATERS I ACTUALLY GRABBED A HUMIDIFIER BECAUSE YOU KNOW ITS PRETTY NASTY THIS TIME OF YEAR UM GENERATOR SOME WOOD FIRE EXTINGUISHER, LIGHTERS A BUNCH OF CAMPING GEAR. MY SLEDS WERE ALREADY IN THERE SO I JUST KEPT AM IN THERE. WHAT KIND OF CAMPING GEAR? I COULDN T EVEN TELL YOU AT THIS POINT IT S A BOX. I MEAN I JUST GRAB IT AND ASSUME WHATEVER I NEED IS GONNA BE IN THERE WHEN IT S READY TO BE USED. II

43 AND MOSTLY THE THINGS I USE ARE ON TOP YOU KNOW LIKE THE SMORE STICKS AND ALTHOUGH I DON T NECESSARILY USE THOSE EITHER BECAUSE IT S JUST EASIER TO GRAB A STICK THEN BURN IT YOU KNOW. AND WHAT ELSE DID YOU PUT IN THERE? UM SOME CORDS, FLASHLIGHT I DON T KNOW JUST A BUNCH OF STUFF UM CORDS? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CORDS? A JUST CORDS SO I CAN PLUG IN THE... ELECTRICAL CORDS? AND WHATS THE BUNCH OF THIS OTHER STUFF? I DON T KNOW I MEAN. A COME ON JOSH YOU REMEMBER PUTTIN CREAM CHEESE IN A PANCAKE AND YOU TELL ME YOU CANT REMEMBER WHAT YOU PUT IN YOUR CAR. THERES.I MEAN THAT S BASICALLY ALL SIGNIFICANT STUFF. OH GAS. SO I ALSO (INAUDIBLE) SOME TARPS. K ANYTHING ELSE YOU REMEMBER? NOTHING SIGNIFICANT. ALRIGHT THAT I CAN THINK OF. WHAT TIME DID YOU A OH FOOD I MEAN WE HAD FOOD. WHAT KIND OF FOOD DID YOU PACK? UM YOGURT, CHEESE HOT DOGS UM MARSHMELLOWS, GRAHAM CRACKERS. II

44 THAT S PROBABLY ABOUT IT. AND WHAT TIME DID YOU GUYS A WHAT TIME DID YOU SAY YOU LEFT YOUR HOUSE? (INAUDIBLE) ONE THIRTY OR TWO AND UM SO YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE AND A I JUST NEED TO KNOW THE EXACT ROUTE WHAT YOU TO WHERE YOU WENT IF YOU STOPPED AND GOT FUEL IF YOU STOPPED TO GET FOOD IF YOU STOPPED ANYWHERE I NEED TO KNOW WHERE YOU STOPPED SO WALK ME THROUGH YOUR ROUTE WHERE YOU STOPPED? I DON T THINK I STOPPED ANYWHERE. WHERE YOU WENT. I JUST WENT THROUGH TOOELE AND I JUST HEADED SOUTH. SO LETS I NEED TO KNOW YOUR ROUTE I MEAN I NEED TO KNOW LIKE WHAT YOU SAY YOU WENT THROUGH TOOELE YOU CAN GET TO TOOELE TWO DIFFERENT WAYS UM HOW DID YOU HMM 80 GET TO TOOE SO YOU A SO YOU LEFT YOUR HOUSE AND YOU USED INTERESTATE 80? TO TOOELE? ALRIGHT AND I MEAN I JUST HEADED SOUTH. AND FOUND MY WAY ON TO THE PONY EXPRESS ROUTE AND THAT WAS IT AND THEN I JUST PULLED OFF INTO SOME SOME TRAIL. SO YOU JUST TO I80 WENT THROUGH TOOELE AND AND YOU WENT TO THE PONY EXPRESS TRAIL SORRY MY PHONE KEEPS GOTTA KINDA SCREEN THESE CALLS UM AND YOU DIDN T STOP ANYWHERE? II

45 NO I DON T THINK SO SO SO YOUR SAYING YOU ALREADY HAD A FULL TANK OF GAS YOU DIDN T HAVE TO FILL UP? HMMM WHAT? I HAD A TANK OF GAS. SO YOU DIDN T HAVE TO... I THINK I MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN IT THE DAY BEFORE OR THE DAY OF OR SOMETHING I DON T REMEMBER. ALRIGHT SO YOU DROVE A UP THE PONY EXPRESS TRAIL YOU DIDN T NO STOP FOR FOOD GAS NOTHING RIGHT? AND YOU GET TO THE PONY EXPRESS TRAIL YOU OBVIOUSLY GO EAST OR SORRY WEST RIGHT? AND HOW FAR WEST DO YOU GO? A I OBVIOUSLY WASN T PAYING ATTENTION DO YOU THINK BUT I JUST I JUST DRIVE AND IF ANYTHING LOS GOOD. (INAUDIBLE) HONESLTY TO BE HONEST WITH YA IVE NEVER BEEN OUT THERE I NEED TO MAKE A TRIP (INAUDIBLE) I HAVENT BEEN OUT THERE TOO OFTEN IT S A NASTY ROAD. I DON T KNOW I DON T KNOW THERES LIKE ANY LANDMARKS IF THERES CAMPING THERES NOT GROUNDS ALL ALONG THE ROAD UM IF THERES. I DON T THINK SO ARE THERE ROADS THAT COME OFF OF THE PONY EXPRESS TRAIL AND GO SOUTH AND NORTH? NO NO? II