Interview with Jessie Lee Chassion

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1 Interview with Jessie Lee Chassion August 2, 1994 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South New Iberia (La.) Interviewer: Michele Mitchell ID: btvct06053 Interview Number: 742 PREFERRED CITATION Interview with Jessie Lee Chassion (btvct06053), interviewed by Michele Mitchell, New Iberia (La.), August 2, 1994, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University ( ) COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture at the Rare Book, Manuscript and Special Collections Library

2 Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South Interview with Jessie Lee Chassion New Iberia, LA August 2, 1994 Interviewed by Michelle Mitchell Unedited Transcript by Cathy Mann Jessie Lee Chassion 1

3 Okay this is August 3, 1994 and this is an interview with Mrs. Chassion. If you could spell your first name. J-E-S-S-I-E L-E-E C-H-A-S-S-I-O-N. Mrs. Chassion, f you could tell me where you were born and when you were born. I was born in Freetown out in the rural area, August 15, Now what was it like growing up in Freetown? It was, see we were surrounded with white neighbors. Okay, now it wasn t really, you had to get permission to pass, to use their road. My grandmother that raised me, being a midwife, my uncles would send her to ask could they come to town because see it was nothing out there but country. They would tell her yes, okay, because the other way too many holes, you couldn t go that way in that old car. But when we would get there there would be a tree or something in the road where you couldn t pass. And this would always happen? Jessie Lee Chassion 2

4 If you couldn t, you had to come back because like it s raining, it has been raining, it was no way you could go the other way because the roads were too bad. So she would go ask, she was the midwife and she would go for the white babies and the black babies, for every baby and she would go oh yes, ya ll could pass but when you would get there to pass you couldn t pass because they d already blocked the road, put a tree or something across the road. So who would she go ask? She would go ask Joe Norris that the road went in front of his house. How do you spell his name? His name was Joe Norris. Okay. So whether it was his road or not I don t know but the road did pass in front of his house so you had to get his permission. See I thought that Freetown had mostly blacks in it. Jessie Lee Chassion 3

5 Now, now but when I grew up, you see Freetown is Freetown but where I grew up was like out from Freetown and Mr. Joe s road, it passed in front of this house so we had to get his permission to use that road. And if he wanted you to do it, but you see my uncles, they were farmers and he did make pretty good crops and it was like a no-no. You wasn t supposed to do that because it was his father s land, really my grandmother s land. Then they had a mortgage on the land and she paid it but then by her not reading or writing my uncle had to pay it again. So he saved the land. The land is still back there but it s like jammed in a corner so you had no way to come out unless you would go on his road. And this land was like handed down from my great grandfather, Tom Simon, then my grandfather who was Morris Simon so the land was just from one generation to the other. And my grandmother said they didn t believe in black people having land. That s why they did us that. Well that s just, I mean, putting a tree in the road. Yeah, you see but he had people working for him and they would haul a tree and put it across the road. Well, you couldn t cross that tree with your car. Car was already old to start off with, you know. Uh-huh. What were some of the things that your uncle raised on the farm? Jessie Lee Chassion 4

6 He raised, he had okra, he had cotton, cane and he raised vegetables because they had big gardens and all the food that we ate like cabbage and beets and whatever was raised in that garden. He even had, they would plant peanuts. They tried to plant as much food as they could because there was, you couldn t say you would come to town and buy something because you didn t know how you would get here so they tried to, and they raised cattle and in the summer they would kill calves. In the wintertime they would do hogs. So you had your meat. They had chickens, you know, things like that they would have. But they didn t raise rice. They didn t? They did not raise rice. But we had corn to grind to make cornmeal, cows to milk. So it wasn t, they couldn t starve us out, we couldn t starve. But if you had to come to buy like if somebody needed something, a pair of shoes or something, you had to get their permission to do it, to come. And we lived through it but there was no other way. How long did this go on? Well, that went on til that old man died and when that old man died I think I was about twelve and then it got better. Now it s not like that out there Jessie Lee Chassion 5

7 now because now, I don t know, the whites have just about all moved away. And then now in this day and time they would have problems doing that, you know. Uh-huh. And then I went to school here. In New Iberia? Yeah. Okay and everything was labeled like it was white only. Follow me? Uh-huh. We used to have a nice house here and we had faucets, you know, soft drinking fountain, white only, but there was a faucet with a hose connected and if you wanted to drink you could drink from that hose. It was just a hose? You know, you could turn the water on and drink from the hose. And the bathrooms at filling stations and whatever, white only. Jessie Lee Chassion 6

8 So there was not even just one colored restroom, nothing at all? No, not at no filling station, it was white only. And if you wanted a sandwich or something from a white place you went to the back door, you knocked and they d come and see what you wanted and they d go fix it and hand it to you. And all the help was black. All of it? All of the kitchen help, they were black. But that s the way they did things. Even if you went in a store, you know like to shop and say I d walk in first and the white woman was behind me they d look over your head and say may I help you. You waited. And this always happened? It always happened. It just happened and nothing could be done about it. Did anyone try to do something about it? No. Jessie Lee Chassion 7

9 No? No. I finished school on the second day of June 1944 and in May that s when you start with your commencement exercises. So we had our graduation but we didn t have a class night because that s when had a black guy came here and he was going to teach welding to the black people and the doctors, we had a Dr. Dorsey who had his own private clinic. We had Dr. Scoggins who was a dentist. No, Dr. Pearson was the dentist. Dr. Scoggins was in internal medicine and we had Herman Faulk, he was the agriculture teacher at school and they were getting together to teach these black guys to weld so they could, you know, try and better their condition. But it didn t work because that s when they got together, these white folks, and ran these doctors out of town overnight. They had to leave. And one guy, Leo Hardy, they took him out in the woods and they beat him but he died and this other man, Gus Barone, they beat him but he didn t die but he played dead and he lived. But all the black doctors and Herman Faulk they had to leave town like just right now. They just left? They had to to save their lives and their families lives, they left and that was the end of the welding school. They didn t want black people to Jessie Lee Chassion 8

10 know nothing or be nothing but just work for them for whatever they decided to pay you. And what did they pay people? Well, if a woman worked and she made two and a half or three dollars a day she was making big money. And you know what else they had? You see these oil field companies, these people would move here from out of state, these white people, and they had a Newcomer s Club. These white women had a Newcomer s Club and these new women that would come they d have this meeting and that was to tell them how much they were supposed to pay. Really? I m telling you, Baby. Because no one s told me that. No, they ain t going to tell you but I m going to tell it like it is. And when they paid you three dollars a day you went there in the morning, you did everything. You cook, you wash you iron, you mind the children, you stayed all day for those three dollars. Jessie Lee Chassion 9

11 Watching children? Everything was included, everything was included. And that s why they had the Newcomer s Club because you see these people that were coming from out of state, they had been used to paying more so they would want to do it but these women would get them together and tell them not to give them too much. But now some of these women didn t buy that, they paid whatever they wanted to pay. They didn t go along with it because they didn t feel like it was right. But to organize a club to tell people what to pay They did it. It was called the Newcomer s Club like it was for newcomers, new women that come into town. So they had this and they d go and had the meeting and that s what it was all about. Said you don t pay them more because all we pay is this three dollars, or you know, so you stay on that level. And would this be five days a week that black women would? Oh no, it wasn t no such a thing as five days a week. It was six, seven days a week, whatever they wanted to do, whatever. It was no five day a Jessie Lee Chassion 10

12 week work. You know, this is all new. It was whatever amount of days and they could tell you what time to come to work but they never told you what time to leave, what you were going to leave. Like if they say be here for seven o clock, okay, you be there but don t you never think you were going to leave at three. You were going to stay until. Until? And if it was somebody sick you took care of them too. You did it all. You did everything. So folks would never get extra money if there was more to do? Oh no, you wouldn t get no more money, you d get that same amount. That s the way it was. So what would black women do with their own children? Well, they d leave them with the next person. Sometimes they had, like some of them had a mother or somebody or a next neighbor, you know. They d help each other out. That s how they d do it. In the neighborhood? Jessie Lee Chassion 11

13 Yeah, you could get somebody, they d try to help you out. So how many black women would live with the women that they worked with? Huh? You know, would there be any women, black women who would live at the white people s houses? Well, a few but not too many because you see they didn t want you, they didn t want you to live in there with them and very few of them had a room outside or something where you could live. And if they did, but you see people didn t want to do that because then you d never be off because okay, you see if company came in the middle of the night and they decided they wanted you to come make coffee they d call you. So it wasn t very popular. I can see why. Nobody didn t want to do it. Nobody didn t want to do it. Jessie Lee Chassion 12

14 Now did you work for any families? No, when I went to school I did but I worked for a lady and she had two boys but she was not Creole and her husband wasn t either so I stayed in the house and she, now she treated me good and she taught me a lot about life itself, you know. She would explain things to me. She was a pretty nice person. But she was born rich. I don t know, I guess that made the difference. How so? Because she wasn t like the rest of them, you know. Because I went to school and she always stressed how important it was for me to go to school but a lot of them didn t want you to go to school. Because I have a son that, I did restaurant, you know, after I grew up all my life and my son I let him work with me after school washing dishes because he needed the little extra money. And one day he, he didn t like to go to school to start off with and one day he told me that the man said if he wasn t going to school he would give him a full-time job and believe it or not I made him quit. I didn t quit and I needed for him to work but he didn t want to go and this wasn t going to help me none and I wanted him to finish school so I said well, as of today you don t come back. I told the man I said don t put that in his head, he don t want to go as it is. And he did finish. He got Jessie Lee Chassion 13

15 a paper route, he cut yards and he did finish and he went in the service and stayed twenty-four years, you know. But that was me because I couldn t see him telling my child that to keep him down the rest of his life. He s forty-some years old, he d still be washing dishes, you know? But we were just absolutely nothing. They had a way they would drive by and if you were outside, do you want to come baby-sit and if you said no you know they wanted to know why. They d ask you why? Why you don t want to come now, I m going to pay you. And you couldn t use for an excuse well, I don t have nobody to stay with my children. They might just tell you you could leave them alone to come mind their children. That s the way it was. Nobody knows unless you been there. It s better but it still has some far to go. It s not right. It s better now but we still have a long way to go, you know. We have a long way to go because it s like even today wherever you are, wherever you go, look like they have two sets of rules. You follow me? Uh-huh. They have a set for the white and another set for the black. But you have to be strong and you don t have to get violent but you have to let them Jessie Lee Chassion 14

16 know you re not crazy. But this has been going on for so long it s like, especially this part of the country, it s like this fear is still Still there? Uh-huh. Why do you think the fear is there? I guess it comes from they think they re going to lose out of something. And we could make it better if we would learn to hold together. You see what I mean? Uh-huh. But we haven t come that far yet. So even like back in the 50 s and 40 s people didn t hold together, is that what you re saying? No, yes and you see they would like if you fixing to do something or we going to do such-and-such, well somebody in the crowd would go tell so they d know what you planning to do. You see that s what happened with Jessie Lee Chassion 15

17 these doctors. They had somebody that was in the crowd with them and they took all the information and went and brought it to these people. They knew about the welding school before it even got off the ground. So they just went on and stopped it because they had the information. They didn t even let it get started. But somebody went and told them. Now why would somebody do that? I don t know it s, I don t know why they would do it. And the person that went and told they were a principal of a school. I don t know if it was to hold their job. I don t know what it was for but they the one that told and that s how this flared up. So they never could start it, they never could get it where they could teach these black guys how to weld. This man wasn t from here who was doing it and he always felt like in time they would be accepted it in these positions and they are now. Huh? Uh-huh. But at that time only white went offshore, only white. Only white went offshore? Jessie Lee Chassion 16

18 Oh, yes ma am, black didn t go offshore. Blacks didn t do nothing but common labor, you know. Now when you say common labor you mean like digging ditches? Or sweeping or being the janitor. You didn t see blacks in the post office working like they do now, you know, they carry mail and they work in the post office and in the banks. They re all over the place. But that wasn t that way. If you were there you were the maid or you were the janitor. That s what you were. Now did those jobs pay better than cutting cane or doing something like that? They would pay them maybe like five dollars a day, six, something like that. So did you stay out in Freetown or did you move into town? No, I left Freetown, I was about twelve years old. Because I wanted to ask you earlier you said that you went to school in New Iberia, that you always went to school in New Iberia. Jessie Lee Chassion 17

19 Yes. They would block the road so that your grandmother couldn t get to town. How did you get to school? I wasn t living there. I was living here. I could walk to school. See you couldn t send your children to, they had a little school out there, a little country school but if it rained too much the children couldn t go to school because there was too much water. So I came to school here and I lived here. I had family here so I could go to school. So what was it like? I mean were the white people in Freetown the same as the white people here or, I mean? Now the only thing, sometime you d run into a mean bunch like the children would, well children I guess will be children. If you were walking the sidewalk and they were coming and if they wanted you to get off the sidewalk and get in the street you just had better do it. Even with children? Jessie Lee Chassion 18

20 Yeah. But the grown people, they wouldn t bother you too much, they wouldn t. But you see it s the children and it was nobody to tell, you were always wrong regardless so you just went on and tried to make it. So there was never a point that you would play with white children? Oh, no. No? No, you didn t play with them, you didn t. Now did any whites live around you once you moved to town? No. Where did you live? You see it was like I lived on Walton Street. Now there was a white store and Mr. Delcum lived next door but he had his store. And if it was a white business they would live either in the business or next door. But they would have stores in the black neighborhoods and they knew they were making their money off of black people so they would be a little Jessie Lee Chassion 19

21 nicer. But if you couldn t read and write because you see they used to sell the groceries, you could buy the groceries and pay, you know, on credit. But you had to know or you had to have somebody that knew how to keep up with it for you because they might charge you for this week and last week too. You see that s how they did it. And you would be wrong if you said wait a minute, you know, you can t charge me you know? I ll tell you they knew you didn t, like some of these people didn t read so they just took their word for it. They did things in a way where it s no way you could get ahead, just no way. So can you understand me now? It just, you know, I understand it but it doesn t make sense in terms of doing everything you can to make sure that people can t get ahead. But that was the policy at that time. And you see even like the Greyhound bus, they had a sign on the Greyhound bus. You know that long seat in the back? Oh, yes. Jessie Lee Chassion 20

22 That s where we had to sit because they had two little signs colored. Now if the bus wasn t crowded those next two seats you could sit there, they wouldn t tell you nothing. But if the bus started to fill up and you were sitting there and you were holding a baby, you got up. And sometimes it just wasn t enough a room on that back seat for everybody. Well yeah, it s long but it s not that long. But that s the way it was. Were there things that would happen in town like incidents between blacks and whites that, you know, where someone would end up being killed or anything rough like that happen? No because the blacks just stayed away. I mean they knew and they just So basically then black folks knew what to do? They did know. That s right, they knew and they didn t get into trouble. Now I remember when they integrated the schools here. My kids were out of school and my grandkids were too young. And Henderson High was right down Anderson Street. One week, only one week they had Jessie Lee Chassion 21

23 problems. But I do believe they felt, I don t know, they thought it was like the old generation. It didn t work like that. Those children stood their ground. They stood their ground. And right at the corner over there, those children turned over police cars, they burned books, they did all kind of things and those boys would tie around their hands like this and they would fight and in one weeks time it was just as peaceful as ever. Because you see it s like the parents, I was working with a lady and her daughter got into something and she had to leave and when she came back she said how here daughter had got beat up. I said but, Ada, you re wrong, you should have told her to mind her own business and don t get involved in this. But it didn t last, one week it was all straightened out and everybody just went to school and no more incidents. But they had to fight and that first week they did fight. They fought, Honey, because a boy, he s a man now living in the back of me and me and his grandmother were talking and he was coming from school and he told her he said Mama, you just soon to whip me enough today for tomorrow because I m fighting again tomorrow. She just put the belt up. But it straightened out and they still having problems. Well, all the children are not doing what s right, the white or the black, you know. But that went down much better than they thought it would. So do you think a lot of parents would punish their kids if they were burning books that one week that things were happening? Jessie Lee Chassion 22

24 No, I don t think they punished them because those children said they were getting the raw end of the deal just like they wanted them to have the old books and, you know, and they just wasn t going to stand for it. And no, they didn t do their children nothing but it didn t last long and the peace came and they just wanted peace. Now what was it like when you were in school? Well, you see our school was all black. Which school did you go to? It was IPTS. We were all black, you know, so we didn t have incidents because we were all black. And they didn t come around us and we couldn t go around them. (Laughter) No, so we just had no problems with them. Uh-huh. But you finished high school like right around, during the war? I finished school in 44. In 44? Did the war take away a lot of black men from this area? Jessie Lee Chassion 23

25 Yes, it did. So who were doing all these jobs that black men were doing before? The women and the younger men. And when the men would return could they get their jobs back? If they wanted to. They would get work. But you know, so many didn t come back here. They didn t come back. You know I see more people coming back home now because you see this was the thing, if I ever get away I m not coming back. So so many they just didn t come back. They just didn t come back. For young women like yourself who were you going to marry if a lot of these men didn t come back? Huh? Who did you marry if a lot of men didn t come back? Jessie Lee Chassion 24

26 Take a old man. (Laughter) But they didn t come back. But it s better, it s better but we still could stand some improvement. We could stand some improvement. Yeah, in terms of jobs and education? We could but yet it s opened, and this is the thing, these kids, they have to understand that it s very important to get an education because that s the way they re going to block you, you know. That s the way that they ll block you so you have to try to get as much as you can so you will be able to stand up. And just like with all this drugs and whatever, I see a lot and these boys, these black boys, sure they pushing and all of that, they re doing it for the white man. You see them car driving beautiful, handing a pack, why let them destroy you that way! You follow me? Well, I guess it s fast money or whatever but they only destroying you. They want you down there and they want to keep you down there. Even now? Sure! You know, they want to keep you down there. But I do believe, I don t know why they hate us. We didn t do them anything. What was done, the wrong that was done was done to us. At church I was talking to an old reverend and he said Sister, I m going to just tell you, I believe this Jessie Lee Chassion 25

27 still, he said they might be afraid that the table would turn. But look like they re afraid to really and truly give you a fair chance. They re afraid. And if you talk to them and like to me I feel like if you talk to them with good sense and let them know you have good understanding, they ll respect you, you know, they re going to listen. That s why I say we ve got, we came a long way but we still have a long way to go, we do. Do you think things are better for you than they were for your grandmother? Oh, yes. You said your uncle did the farm. Did your grandmother work the farm too? Before her husband died but you see my grandmother was the only midwife around that area and she was very seldom home. So she was busy? She was very seldom home. When you got sick did she take care of you or did you go to a doctor? Jessie Lee Chassion 26

28 Well she, what you mean if I got? If you got sick like when you were a child, she was a midwife, did she like do other medicines and things like that? No, we had to go to the doctor. But you see they didn t let us get sick because they d give us medicine all the time. (Laughter) We were never sick. Like in the wintertime they d mix olive oil and honey together in a little jar and soon as it started getting cold everybody had to take some of that. She said that was to oil your insides so you wouldn t catch a cold. So we didn t catch colds. This was olive oil and what? Honey. And you d just take a spoonful? You d stir it up in a little jar and you d squeeze a little lemon in it and you d mix up in a jar and you kept that and you d take some of that. I don t know if it kept the colds away but I know we didn t have any. And I did it for my children. Jessie Lee Chassion 27

29 And it works? Maybe it s in my mind but it worked. No, oh no, that works. (Laughter) And I still do it because that s the way they did with us and we were never sick. And you see then like in summer, alright, it s summer and school will open and then just before school opened they d give you a purgative and then they would make soup and you would take that purgative and you would eat soup all day and they said that was getting the summer fever out of you. I don t know if it s true or not but that s all they did for us and we didn t get sick. Now what was in the purgative? Huh? What was the purgative, what was it? Was it just some herbs or something? It was tasting like Epson salt to me. Jessie Lee Chassion 28

30 Tastes like Epson salt? Uh-huh. That s probably what it was. To get rid of the summer fever? Yes, she would call it biliousness. I heard somebody else say that if you got a cut they used salt pork. Have you heard about that? Yeah. So would your grandmother do that too? She didn t do it to me. She used to do it to, I used to see them do that to the older ones because they would always get cut, walking on something, you know and they would put salt, you always had salt pork because that s the way you preserved your meat with salt. And they would put that on there and said it would take the infection out. I bet you try that today you d die. Jessie Lee Chassion 29

31 You think so? I don t know. I don t know if I d want to put no salt pork on no cut. But that s how they did it. But if you cut and you bled a lot, spider web. You d just put the spider webs on? Get the, you know, and that would stop the bleeding. So there wasn t really any need to go to a doctor because folks knew how to take care of? They took care of themselves. Uh-huh. They took care of themselves and they had like if they had, I even saw them if a child had whooping cough and the horse, the mare had a colt, they d chase the mare around the pasture then catch the mare and milk her and give that milk to that child for the whooping cough. But I never saw doctors too much. Now when my grandmother got older, she lived to be eighty-nine, and she went to her daughter in Galveston. I did too and we stayed there awhile and she said bring her home because she didn t want Jessie Lee Chassion 30

32 to die over there, she wanted to come die at home. We brought her home and she went to bed and she never got up and they got the doctor. I saw the doctor come but I was grown then. And he said it was nothing with her but she was just old because he couldn t find nothing. She didn t live but two weeks after that. But other than that you never saw the doctor. Whenever my cousins had babies she d do it so you just didn t see it. And with all they did to us and those white people would come to her she d go. And sometime it was pouring down rain, they d come walking, she d go. She d put her old coat and a little hat on her head tight, she d go. And no raincoat and no umbrella but she d go. And sometime they d come on an old horse, she d sit sideways on the horse and the man would lead the horse and she went as much for white as she did black. And they still did her that way? Well, they didn t call themselves doing it to her, they called themselves doing it to her son because you see they knew she didn t have no car, she didn t drive. But yet they would do it. Now did your uncle sell his? No. Jessie Lee Chassion 31

33 No? So he was just doing well but he was doing well for his family? He farmed that land until, he farmed it and he bought some more in another spot further away from that. This where they was blocking us out, it s still there. His grandson lives there and he has a son that lives out there. And they lease the farmland. So they lease it now? Yeah, they don t farm anymore but it s still there. (End of Side A) Side B have been done to people? Oh, yes. So much wrong that has been done to people and done to their children and done to their parents. Yes. But maybe it wasn t harder than my grandmother because she had been a slave. Your grandmother had been a slave? Jessie Lee Chassion 32

34 Uh-huh. Okay, and she, so I guess she could cope with it. She had been a slave. But see it was worse with her because she had marks across her back where they had whipped her and she had a finger, it was bent like this where a little boy had chopped it with the hatchet. She had been a slave. Why did he chop it off? I don t know she said she was supposed to be taking care of the little boy. She was trying to make him do something and he didn t want to do it and she put her hand down and he chopped it with the hatchet. They tied it up some kind of way. It grew back but it stayed crooked. And she said, now I had, my grandmother was dark because her father was dark and you see the war that freed the slaves, he went but she don t know if he got killed or what. She just don t know because you see the master took care of all that, the white man took care of all of that. And my grandmother had a sister that fair and she had soft hair. And I never did like to get my hair combed because I would just scream murder. And I used to ask her why didn t I have hair like Aunt Sallie s children and that s when I grew up and she told me about her daddy and her mama. But you see Aunt Sallie was not, Aunt Sallie was for the master. She said if the master went in the little shack and decided to be with their mama it was nothing nobody Jessie Lee Chassion 33

35 could do and they would be all right there and that s why Aunt Sallie was bright and she wasn t. Now how could people do that with the children, you know? But that s the way it was when she grew up because she was a slave. And she said it was so cold in the little shack where they had to live til her mama had to burn wood in the fireplace all night to try to keep her children warm because they had so many cracks, you know, in the walls and all of that. She used to always like if we d complain she d tell us to stop complaining and to pray because we had it a whole lot better than her and that s how she would be telling us that. That s right. It s bad, Honey. ()? No Baby, yes it s been something. It s been something. And you know, even here every now and then you have to call them down, you know. Every now and then you have to call them down. Like I tell them, I m getting old and ain t nobody going to dog me no more cause I ain t taking it. I m not going to take it, Baby. And every now and then because sometime in here it gets, and I ll call them down. It s like they can t forget what you re supposed to do. They just can t forget it and don t let nobody fool you, even in here, see I believe in telling the truth. Even in here every now and then things going like they forget and they do things that sometime you have to (). But don t you think that s not right? Even here. But see our boss, she is very, very prejudiced. Jessie Lee Chassion 34

36 Is she? Oh Lord, yes. She s good in her way but like it s like sometime they forget and then you have to say well, that s not quite right. It s not quite right. But as long as you let them do it and think they re right they re going to keep doing it. But you got to let them know that some things, that s not the way. You ve got to do what s right, right? Uh-huh. And everybody got feelings. But we blacks here, we ve come from a long ways. (Laughter) We have come from a long, long, long way but we still have a long way to go. And sometime we just talk too much. That s the way it is. (Laughter) And you know, like some of these women, I tell them I say you know what burns me up, when I creep up on ya ll talking about each other to them. Why can t you sit down and discuss it among yourself, huh! And don t let them know like if one having problems or something, no need to tell them that because look like when a person having a hardship or problem that s when they really want to treat you bad. You know that? That s why things like that we ve got to learn not to do that. That s not the way. If you can t help or you can t say nothing good just shut up. You know, just shut up, say I don t know. One thing Jessie Lee Chassion 35

37 about her, she always feel like, I can t make her understand that, yeah, people need each other. Maybe I need your money but you need my labor so we need each other, right? And that s the way, it s got to start working that way. You know? That s how it goes. What good it do to give you to have anything, you can t do it all yourself and you ain t got nobody to do it for you? So people need each other and that s the one thing we should strive for, respect. I m not always supposed to respect you and you don t never respect me. (Laughter) We re supposed to respect each other. I can t walk up to you and say oh, I can tell her anything cause she young. No, I can t do that. I ve got to respect you so in return you will respect me too. Right? Uh-huh. That s the way life is and that s what all of this commotion, to me I feel like a lot of this, that s what it is, that s what it has always been. They always thought we always were nothing, you know, we just were nothing and they were everything. And yet, they couldn t make it without us but they didn t treat us right. And I know people who had stuff and they just borrowed, borrowed and then eventually the white man took it because he said you owed it all to me so they took it. They took land, you know, just, because they couldn t keep records, no receipts so they just signed it away. And at one time like the older people, I knew some old ladies here that Jessie Lee Chassion 36

38 didn t believe in, instead of go try to put their little money in the bank or something they let Mr. So-and-So, Miss So-and-So hold it. Yes, ma am. For real? Uh-huh. And they held it, they held it. Because I know a lady, when she died she was living with my sister-in-law so she went to these people because she knowed and I believe what they give her was a hundred and fifty dollars. She said that s all she had. She said well I know she had more than that cause you ve been holding money for her for years. But she couldn t prove it because the old lady didn t have no receipts. That s how they did things. That s the way they did it! And they let them, cause you see these older people they still got that faith and confidence in these people even now. You know? And that s how a lot of these white people got what they got, they stole it from blacks. They just took it. Sign and loan, well, if you ain t keeping no record they ain t keeping none so eventually it s theirs. All these things just happened. All these things just happened. It s a whole lot of things that nobody just don t have the slightest idea, you know, how it goes. These things you re telling me, they re outrageous. Jessie Lee Chassion 37

39 I know, I know that. But that s the way it was. That s just the way it was. You know? And tell who, who would you tell? This is true. Who would you go to? Who could you go to? They had control so it was nowhere to go, just nowhere to go. So just let it be. But now you see the generations are smarter and they wouldn t let these things go on with their old people, not now. But think about the ones that don t have nobody. Huh? That don t have nobody you know. Now people that have people to look after them and take care of these things, fine. But how about the ones that just don t have anybody? Uh-huh, I hadn t thought about it that way. Huh? I hadn t thought about it that way. Well, that s the way it is. That s the way it is. Now just like alright, I think about this all the time, just like with nursing homes patients get thirty-eight dollars a month and if you don t ever buy nothing or do nothing you know thirty-eight dollars saved eventually you can pile up. Jessie Lee Chassion 38

40 Now if you don t have anybody after your death to claim it then what happens to that? You see? What happens? Even if they hold it a certain many years waiting for somebody to come but suppose nobody don t come, then what happens? So I don t know what happens because everybody don t have somebody to look after them. That s true. I don t know what happens. I know it s property here in town that people didn t have nobody. The husband would die and then the wife might live and then after that she died, they had no children. I wonder what s going to happen. What, it goes back to the city? I guess, you know. They re going to, if nobody don t come forward they re not going to waste no time looking for cousins and all these people. No, they ain t going to do that. Somebody s going to claim it eventually. And it won t be somebody black. No, no, it won t. So you see they always had things going their way. Everything was in their favor and the majority of the black people didn t read, you know. I have gone, a man was buying a little building. You know those little metal buildings? Jessie Lee Chassion 39

41 Uh-huh. And the building was I believe three hundred dollars and he was standing at the window counting money and I was standing there waiting to get to this window and he by-passed the amount and he kept on going and I said you give him too much. You know what that white man told me? What are you his lawyer? But I knew the man and I knew he couldn t read and he huh, that s enough, that s enough, that s enough. He had already bypassed the amount so I just said (), that s enough. What are you his lawyer? When did this happen, was this recently? This happened about ten years ago. But I knew the man couldn t count, you know. And I knew him. So I said hey, that s enough, you give him too much. The man asked me what are you his lawyer? And he took the money? You see he had by-passed the amount the man wanted but he was going to take it. You see but people they do things like this and some people they don t know and you can t tell them and they won t trust you to go with them because they re going to believe what they tell them. You know? Jessie Lee Chassion 40

42 So that hasn t changed? Oh no, that will never change. They believe what they tell them, especially people that don t have anybody to look out for them. They believe what they tell them. It s an old store on the corner of Washington and Hopkins, this old George () store been there since I was a little small child and it s still there. It s all dirty and dusty and she sell everything, you know. People used to go there and buy and people still go buy with this woman. And whatever amount your check is that s the amount you owe her. (Laugher) You know? But she got the store, then she got some shacks, some houses that just need to be torn down. So you do that and your rent and everything is altogether. But they need repairs and everything and people still let her do that to them. But it s people that they don t really have nobody, they don t know and they believe what she say, you know. And they just believe it with all their heart. But it still goes on. It s not as open as it was because people know better, you know, and it s different because now most people have somebody, a child or a grandchild or something to kind of look out for them. But it s still bad, it s still, if they can get over they will. They re not going to try to help you find a real answer. But it s not as bad as it was. But it has room for improvement. Jessie Lee Chassion 41

43 Oh, yes. A whole lot of room. And if you re not stupid and you can kind of fend for yourself, what they call you? A smart nigger. It s not that you want to be smart but it s just that you don t want to take advantage of nobody and you don t want nobody to take advantage of you. Huh? Oh, yes. Cause you ve lived through that already. You don t want to just forever live the same way and, you know, because there was times ever if they knew they couldn t, like my grandmother she went to her grave saying but I know I paid that mortgage. She said I know I did! But she had no receipt, she couldn t prove it and it was her word against his and my uncle say Mom, I m just going to pay it again and she had paid and he paid it over. So they paid it twice because she had no, but she didn t read either and how far was her word going to go? But you see when my uncle did it my uncle could read so it s proven that he did it. What about voting around here? Well, now we know we can vote now but you have just as many not voting as they have voting because they never registered. Jessie Lee Chassion 42

44 So when did people start voting? They started voting in 60 what 65, 66. And the old man, Abraham Roy, the first black man to register to vote. Abraham, what s his last name? Roy. They didn t want the black people to vote but he broke the ice because he went and registered. He was the first person, first black person. And Mr. Roy, like he said he was alone, he said well, if they kill me I m old anyway. But he went and then gradually people would go. Did people try to vote before him? No. No? Uh-uh. Everybody was scared to go because you see at that time the white man is the one had the guns. And then you would fear for your own life, you feared for your family s life, so you just wouldn t do it. But Mr. Roy went and gradually people started going to vote. They started and even Jessie Lee Chassion 43

45 now it s so many of us that just didn t register and to me it s wrong. They had to fight and die for it and now you don t want to go. You see sometimes we keep our own self down, huh, right? We got to stop living in the past and try, you see, that s what I m saying, we still have a long way to go. We have a long way to go. You hear them say well, they do what they want anyway. Well, maybe if we all would do something maybe we could stop them from doing what they want, right? Well, how are we going to ever stop them? I don t know. I thank you so much for your honesty. And Honey, everything I told you is true because me lying never did make it. (Laughter) I never could but that s the way it was. I appreciate it. And it s better, like I m telling you, it s better but it s not as good as it should be and we have a long way to go. Jessie Lee Chassion 44

46 Jessie Lee Chassion 45

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