Welcome to the Starting from Nothing podcast. I m your host, Frank Mocerino. Today, we ve got a special guest with us. His name is Jeff Wenberg.
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1 Starting from Nothing The Foundation Podcast Guest Name Interview Jeff Wenberg YouTube is the number two search engine behind Google and all this data that s like points to video is being awesome. But the problem is like most people don t track their videos past, Oh, I got 1,000 views, or something like that. That s as far in as they go. Where it s really important is knowing if you re getting an ROI from the videos that you create because if you re spending more on the videos to make them then they re bringing back. It s kind of pointless to be making videos. Introduction: Welcome to Starting from Nothing The Foundation Podcast, the place where incredible entrepreneur show you how they ve built their businesses entirely from scratch, before they knew what the hell they were doing. Welcome to the Starting from Nothing podcast. I m your host, Frank Mocerino. Today, we ve got a special guest with us. His name is Jeff Wenberg. Jeff is actually a Leadpages employee who went through the Foundation as a student. He identified a painful problem, sketched the solution, got a software built in a month, now he s got his first paying customer. What we re going to hear today is the real story of what it looks like to actually start a company. We re going to talk in-depth about how Jeff found his idea, why he broke some of the rules of the Foundation, and how he s now starting to scale and grow his new software company, Smart Video Metrics. I think you guys are really going to enjoy this. Before we get into the episode, I wanted to take a moment to tell you about FreshBooks. A cloud-based accounting service made by small business owners for small business owners. Use FreshBooks to end your problems with invoicing and get yourself paid in a timely manner. Right now they re offering a month of unrestricted trial access to all listeners of Starting from Nothing. It s totally free. There s no credit card required. To sign up, just head to FreshBooks.com/StartingfromNothing.
2 Beautiful! Today we ve got Jeff Wenberg on. Jeff built a solution called Smart Video Metrics. Jeff is also a current and past student of the Foundation. I guess you never really end up leaving the Foundation because it s a lifetime community. So Jeff went through the Foundation, identified a painful problem, built a software business around that. So Jeff, welcome. Hey. Thanks, Frank. I m excited to be here. Yeah, we re excited to have you. Before we start diving into Smart Video Metrics, let s talk a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey. When did your entrepreneurial journey actually begin, Jeff? Yeah. I d say probably like in my late teens when I started playing in bands. And just kind of having to figure out how to get gigs, how to get people out to gigs. So that was kind of like the start of marketing. In about 2008 or 2009, I moved to Nashville to pursue music full-time. While I was there, I ended up discovering internet marketing. The fact that you could make money online and this whole, like, other world I never knew existed. And then at the same time, I was working a temp job to basically pay the bills while I was trying to become a rock star, right? Walked in on a Monday and I was working at some mind-numbing job and I ed my wife just saying how dumb I thought the job was and everything and sent it off. I didn t know that when it auto-populated I actually sent that to my boss. So, ended up kind of getting let go from that job. It was kind of the best thing that ever happened because it was like, Okay, from this point forward, I can no longer do that. So I ended up starting my own voice over and video business and just built that from like one client off of Fiverr to having 80K a year job just that I did on my own. And then from there, ended up catching the eye of one company where I ended up working for the last few years. From there, went on to get some onthe-job training for serious marketing. Awesome. I love it, man. So tell us a little bit about why you joined the Foundation and when you joined. What was driving that decision to join something like the Foundation?
3 Yeah. So, towards the end of the company I started for voiceovers and videos, I was just getting sick of really the up and down of never having solid income. And then somewhere along the line like Dane and Andy had released -- I think it was the Software Roundtable at that point. So it was like, Oh man, that sounds awesome. I kind of had already started looking at different apps and that sort of thing and was super intrigued by the SaaS model and everything. Right around that same time, I had a really solid job offer and I also wanted to do that. I decided to take the solid job offer first because I found the learning potential from the CEO of the company to be greater. It s been an amazing opportunity. But basically about, I guess it would be a year ago or so, the time had come with like scheduling and I talked my wife into being okay with me doing the Foundation on the side. So that s when I started and actually pulled the trigger to join the Foundation. Alright. So it s been just about a year. Alright, cool. Let s dive into Smart Video Metrics. What I want to give listeners is I want to lay out the actual timeline and the progression of what it looks like to start a business from scratch because a lot of the people listening are falling into the camp of they listen to the podcast, they read the books about entrepreneurship, they have this notion, this goal in life that they want to be an entrepreneur. What ends up happening for people is they have this notion, they have this goal, and they don t know how to actually go out and make it a reality. They don t know what the day-to-day of an entrepreneur looks like when you re getting a company stood up. So, let s start with Smart Video Metrics, okay? Let s start with number one. How did you know or how did you find out that there was an opportunity to solve a problem? Yeah. I think it would be worth kind of taken back like one or two steps to what happened like right when I first started in the Foundation? Totally.
4 I was like completely gung-ho to just like rock and roll, right? I got in and I started burning through all the content and started doing like my idea calls and everything. I hit on an idea where it was like this is huge and it was for like freelancers. So I started doing the whole process of mapping it all out and trying to do preselling and everything. It came to, I think, maybe two months in where it was just like -- people were kind of like they had stopped returning my calls that had kind of help me map this whole thing out. They just lost interest. They didn t want to buy in. So it was like, Okay, I think maybe the signs are on the wall. That I need to scrap this before it goes any further. I floundered around for maybe two or three weeks just like, Shoot, I don t know what to do. I was talking with another Foundation alum, Antonio Rilera? Yeah. He s a buddy of mine from work. He said something where it was just like, Whoa! So he was like, Sometimes you just got to scratch your own itch. I was like, Yeah man. I mean if I could just and then I literally laid out the exact thing that Smart Video Metrics does. I was like, Whoa! That s it. That s my solution. That s my magic wand solution right there. Yeah. Basically, that s kind of how it all came to be. I just had this incredible pain at work that I needed a solution for. And then from there it was like guns blazing forward. Awesome. Okay, so I like that. Because a lot of what we talk about in the Foundation is you don t need credibility, you don t need a ten-year track record, you don t need any of that stuff to start a business. The number one thing that you need to start a business is a problem to solve. So what was the problem that you were experiencing that you wanted to go out there and solve? Yeah. Just basically what Smart Video Metrics does is it allows you to tell if somebody clicking and playing your video turns into a lead or a customer. The problem was just that there was nothing that made this easy. It was all like a very manual process of tracking Google Analytics and trying to hound some coworkers to get me the data I needed. The problem was you had to do that every
5 week since view counts and everything go up and down depending on how much traffic a video is getting. It s never like a static number. It was just like very, very manual and labor intensive. Eventually what would happen is we would just stop tracking videos all together and then it would just be like, Well, was that even worth all the time, effort, and stress that we just put in to that? I think I even forgot the question you asked. The number one problem that you re solving. Yeah. So basically just being able to -- like the number one problem was ultimately being able to track that over the life of a visitor without having to spend a ton of manpower on it. Got it. So tell me, why is that important? It s kind of a rhetorical question but let s flash it out a little bit. Why is it important for you to be able to track this type of stuff? Yeah. Because it s super expensive if you start tracking hours invested and money invested in creating videos. And everyone knows like, Oh, videos are the end-all be-all for turning web visitors into money. YouTube is the number two search engine behind Google and all this data that s like points to video is being awesome. But the problem is like most people don t track their videos past, Oh, I got 1,000 views, or something like that. That s as far in as they go. Where it s really important is knowing if you re getting an ROI from the videos that you create because if you re spending more on the videos to make them then they re bringing back. It s kind of pointless to be making videos. What percentage of people would you say -- and this is going to be a guess -- are flying blind? Meaning they re putting a lot of time and effort and potentially money into creating videos for their business and then they re not tracking ROI at all. Yeah. I would say conservatively, if I just had a rough guess, and I would say this is probably on the low side, 75%. Most people don t track this at all. Whew! Alright. Yeah, it s crazy. We ve got a painful problem. We ve got people investing a serious amount of time, energy, resources into creating their videos and they ve got no idea
6 whether or not their time invested is bringing back the dollars into their business. Alright. So the Foundation has got a process out there of pre-selling. Meaning that before you actually go out there and build a solution, the idea is that you collect presell dollars in advance so that you re mitigating the risk of going out there and building something with your own money. One of the other things that we also talk about in the Foundation a lot is that you follow a set of rules but ultimately, people are going to come in and break the rules. So you broke the rules of the pre-selling model. Share with us a little bit about why you felt confident doing that. Yeah. Don t tell Dane. We ll keep it between you and I. Alright. Basically what ended up happening is I knew that it was such a huge problem for me and we were investing really heavily in videos. So I knew instantly that it would solve my problem and I would pay for the solution. I knew that most likely this would be something that a lot of other people in a similar situation would also benefit from. I ended up reaching out to a few different people kind of in my market and validated the idea with them. What ended up happening was through those calls, two of the people I talk to said they either already tracked it or they were building something in-house. Like a custom solution just for their business. I believe it was like two other people I talk to were like, Oh, if you build this, I absolutely will use this. Just like send me the bill, I ll gladly use this. Based on that it was like, Okay, that s interesting. And then when I talk to a developer friend of mine, I just kind of ask like, If you had to roughly ballpark out what I m thinking about building here and then I just laid it out, what do you think that would cost? The cost was so low that I just decided to take a calculated risk and fund it myself. Got it. What was that calculated risk? How much did you actually pay? Yeah. It s been a while now too so I can t remember exactly. But I think it was like $2500.
7 So it was like fairly cheap. I like okayed it with my wife and everything because I was like, Look, here s the situation. I think this is a winner. Here s why. We talked it out and we both felt comfortable taking that risk. Alright, cool. So I like that. You basically evaluated whether or not the risk was going to be worth the reward. You got the quote back. It was something that you personally would buy and would be able to leverage regardless of whether or not a million people came and bought it. You knew that there were other people wanting this. Not just because they said it was a good idea but because they were actually investing money to go build a custom solution. So you take the calculated risk. Had you ever in the past been involved with hiring and managing developers or did you build this yourself? Tell us a little bit about, okay, now you ve got the idea. You know the dollar amount it s going to take. What happens next? Yeah. Real quick. One caveat, I think, I d love to throw out there is hindsight being 20/20. I think I probably would have gone back and worked a little harder to do at least one or two presales. Just because it would have helped like kind of validate a few things I m running into now a little bit better than just kind of guessing. That s just like hindsight that I ve gotten from my process. No, that s awesome. Let s learn a little bit from your process. What are the things that you re discovering now that you re thinking, Oh, it would have been
8 better if I went back and presold it. So what types of things are you running into now that our listening audience can learn from? Yeah. It would have helped a little bit with positioning of the product. I could have figured out my marketing message a little better and a little sooner so I could have made it easier to sell the product. Basically, I would have had to figure that out before I could really be like This is what it does and this is why it s valuable and make it easy for people to understand. It s been a little confusing for people. And then secondly, it would have helped with certain features where when I originally built it it was like, Oh, this is going to be killer. And then as people have gotten in there and started using it, all these other features have come up where it would have been nice to just start with those other features. Ah, got it. So that s cool. So you re learning or what we can learn is that pre-selling is not just about the straight dollar amount that it s going to take to develop the software but it s about positioning and it s about the specific features. Why guess on the features when you can get the users to tell you exactly what they need and what they don t need. Exactly. Cool. Alright. That s a great learning process. Yeah. How did you build it? Previously I had worked with contractors as far as virtual assistants and other copywriters and that sort of thing but I had never work in or never worked with developers. I literally just followed the kind of the outline in the Foundation module about hiring a developer. I think it was literally almost word-for-word. I just copied and past it and customize the section where it needed to be applicable to what I was looking for. But yeah, I pretty much did that. What ended up happening is it got like -- I got the listener down to like four people and I started interviewing them and I like this one guy who was the most
9 expensive and he was like -- I don t know, like $130 an hour or something like that. Something crazy. But it turned out that he ended up having a background in building the type of tools that I was building so it was kind of like -- I bet he could build this quicker than if I had to kind of hand hold somebody who s never built something like this for cheaper. So it was like, okay, I talked to him. We kind of talked that out and there was like the vibe where it was like I really like this guy. He really seems to know what he s talking about. I knew enough about what I was trying to do that I was like, Well, he s not BS-ing me here. I can tell he knows what he s talking about. So I decided to go with him. What we did is we just put a cap on what I could spend. This is my max budget, man. I can t go over this. What he ended up doing is adjusting his hourly rate to fall in line with that budget because he wanted to work on the project too. So it was kind of cool and serendipitous. I think the key takeaway is just communicate with these people and don t try and like low ball them but just tell them, like, honestly, what s going on because a lot of times -- they want to build cool stuff just as much as you want somebody to build it. So that s one key takeaway as far as hiring goes. From there, I just followed the Foundation stuff about mapping out the products, story maps and all that kind of stuff. It was like really weird because I totally do not understand any of it. (Laughs) (Laughs) But I think it was Dane or Andy, somewhere in there. I always just said to myself The next step forward is taking action. It was just like literally -- I don t even know if I m doing the right thing but I m just going to do something. It just ended up kind of like I had enough of a outline that I would take it to the developer and he would be like, Well, what about this? and then I would go back to the drawing board and update my user stories and user map and all that kind of stuff. And then How about this? There s like an iterative process so basically there s a little bit of back and forth until we got it nailed down and then he had enough of what he needed to build it. Awesome. How long was that whole process in terms of going out there to hire them and receiving a final MVP of the product? Yeah. I bet it was probably only like a month. Wow! Yeah. It was like super fast and it was awesome and so exciting.
10 Let s take a brief pause here to talk about the accounting side of a business. It s easy to be overwhelmed by the amount of options out there. Personally, I always was feeling scattered between the different types of apps and payment methods, all the while pretty much struggling to keep an accurate record of what was actually happening in my business. I wanted to be focused on serving my clients and I was letting the financial side of things fall to chance. Luckily, I discovered FreshBooks recently and it s totally flipped how I handle my entire accounting practice. So, with FreshBooks, it takes 30 second to send an invoice. Your clients can pay you online and you can get reminders about particular invoices in an instant. There s a sneakily great feature called the Invoice Autobiography that lets you see what happened with and who has viewed your invoice. You can even accept deposit payments at the start of big projects. FreshBooks does a whole lot more too and right now they re offering a month of unrestricted trial access to all of our listeners. So all you have to do is go to freshbooks.com/startingfromnothing to sign up. There s no credit card required to do this. It s totally free. Make sure you check it out if you re really into getting paid with the minimum amount of hassle. So you went out there, counter intuitively ended up starting a discussion with the most expensive of the people that provided you quotes, had a conversation. One of the biggest things that I take away from that that you mentioned that I want to make sure listeners focus on is, number one, don t always just go by who s going to build this the cheapest for me. But the other thing that I really want to take away from that is you mentioned that it was important that your developer was excited to work on the project. Yeah. I think that s something that a lot of people can learn from because when people are putting out bids or when they re putting out a request for a proposal on some sort of an internet site like Elance or Upwork or whatever the new ones are. When they re doing that, often times they re just focused on I m going to put out the exact technical feature set of what I need and then some lucky developer is going to win the gift of me giving them money. So what I heard from you is that it s not just about a developer winning the lucky gift of getting money and developing something for you but it is your ability to sell them on how exciting the product is about what it s going to do. That actually allowed you to have that developer lower his rate.
11 Because I think it s like super key to, like you said, it s not that the lowest price, it s the perfect mix of enthusiasm and price. Yes. So you ve got this thing built now in, let s say, roughly a month and you didn t go through the pre-selling process which I love because we re breaking all the rules and getting it done anyway. By what you said, you re just taking action, plotting for it a little bit every single day over a long period of time. So with no presales, how did you actually go out there and start to get your first paying customers? Was it something that you went off and did one at a time where you set up conversations and sold people? Or did you go directly down the route of setting up a funnel and building up the customer a list that way? Right. So I started with one-on-one conversations with people in my market. I think that s really like if I had to tell people in the Foundation like one thing to do, it would be to have those conversations with people in your market. No matter what stage of the process you re in, that s been by far the thing that s provided the most success, or whatever you want to call it, in my business is by interacting with the people that could potentially use this. Because not only do they get interested in the product but they also give me great ideas that I could like roll into my product. That s basically how I ended up kind of building everything. I did a couple of different offshoots of things we could talk about if you like. Yeah, I m curious. What are the offshoots? Yeah. So I started with those one-on-one conversations. I mean some of those are still going on. I literally just closed one of them last week that I probably started six months ago. It just was like one of those timing things. I m sure you know because you do like selling and stuff. Sometimes it takes a while.
12 Yeah, totally. So there was that that was always kind of happening in the background and then I tried doing some webinars. Recently I ve been trying some Facebook ad with more traditional funnel and that sort of thing. I would only recommend doing that if you re like rock solid on your positioning of your product and your unique value proposition. All that stuff that you need to really like make it abundantly clear right away what your product is about and what the benefits are and that sort of thing. Otherwise, I would like stick to kind of like your market and just doing stuff where maybe it s like contributing to somebody s blog or website. Nowadays, like Snapchat or live videos. All the stuff that s free, I would utilize that stuff first until you really get your messaging streamlined. Otherwise it s kind of like a little risky not knowing if like you re right on or not. Especially when you re spending money on ads and that sort of thing. Yeah. We talked about the positioning and specifically we talked about the positioning around pre-selling where you mentioned one of the takeaways was if you had gone through presell conversations, you would have had a better understanding of exactly how to position things. What was the specific lesson that you learned? What did you end up finding specifically about Smart Video Metrics you thought, let s say, you are going to position it one way and then you realize that you needed to adjust that a little bit. What specifically did you discover that helped you see, okay, I thought it was going to be this way but what I m learning now is that I actually need to go another way? Yeah. I think the biggest thing is that people just don t realize they have a problem. Which then it makes it really hard to educate them on the problem. And so I think if I would have had to figure that out first, I could have probably scaled quicker because I would know how to hit the pain points and how to present my solution as the ultimate fix all for that problem. So did you go into it thinking that people already knew they had a problem and then the lesson was you found out, well, they don t actually even realize that yet? Yeah, exactly. Because I just figured like I knew I had a problem so other people have to know they have a problem. As they started talking with more and more
13 people it was like, Oh, shoot, they don t even realize that they have a problem. Or if they do, they just don t care because it s not painful enough yet. From the time -- let s say -- So it took roughly a month to actually get this thing finally developed and ready to go. And I say finally like a month is a long time. It took one month to get this thing developed which is an amazing amount of time. So how long after that did you get sale number one in the books? Yeah. Let s see. That was kind of tough to remember exactly but I think I would say it was probably like two to three months, something like that. But I guess the thing to consider is the fact that I generally only work on this business about like one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. Because I have a full-time job and that kind of takes up most of my time and dedication. So this is just kind of like something that I m building with my focused before work and after work time. This is spread out kind of like incredibly long. If I was focusing on this like 100% of the time, it probably would have been a little faster. But I think the first one was about two or three months. I ll be honest here. It s still not going as well as I would like it to be going but I think the next one was maybe like four months later. It was a long time. It was very dry. No, it s okay. And share with us because I thought this is really interesting when we were talking before the call. Where are you primarily working on this? Yes. So I m primarily working on this on the bus to and from work. So you re building this in two hours a day and a large percentage of that time is spent doing it on the bus. Yeah. I love that, man. Finding time where you can. Yeah. So let s demystify a little bit, right? Our intention isn t to be coy about exactly where Jeff is. Our intention here is to show you, number one, month to build the product, broke the rules of pre-selling, learned a few lessons that were valuable now and going back around positioning. But, again, two hours a day on the bus.
14 Where you at right now? Give us a sense of where this business is at in terms of customers or revenue or whatever you re comfortable. So I ve got like -- I think there s probably like 15 users in there. All of those are free users that I ve just went out and built relationships with, got them in there so they could start using it and give me feedback. As of today, I ve got three paying customers. Good boy. A new customer came in today while I was on a call and it was like, What? No way! It was awesome. Yes. Alright, I like that. Yeah. Like I said, it s definitely not where I would love it to be but it seems like my work of figuring out the positioning and really trying to nail down the pricing, it seems like it s starting to break through. What do you see for the next three months of Smart Video Metrics in terms of, number one, what are your goals? Number two, what is the highest leverage things for you to focus on in these two hours a day to get you to those goals? Yeah. Let s see. I think for the next three months, there could be a potential pivot for the company where I might move to make Smart Video Metrics like a bonus and not the main offer. I haven t quite figured everything out yet but that s been floating around a lot and just things I ve been thinking about. I guess to figure out what to focus on, my main thing would be product research. And then once I figure out exactly what I m going to be doing and how to position it, it will be pre-selling. Alright. Alright. Anything I move to where it s going to cost money from here on out, it s preselling all the way. Do you want to talk at all about the potential pivot that you re thinking about? I can t give specifics because I don t know yet but it would be more like some kind of service or some kind of platform or something where there s a service provided and it s an upsell or a bonus or a bonus feature for joining -- It could even be a membership site. I m not quite sure yet. But the bonus would be, Oh,
15 and you also get this $100 a month product that tracks how well your videos are working. Cool. So over this period, right? So you ve made a few mistakes. What would you say is your biggest take away from the mistakes that you ve made so far? Yeah. I made so many. It s kind of hard to pick one. I think I got overzealous in wanting to get this going. And I should have, like I said, just been more patient and tried to presell it. Alright. What do you think you did exceptionally well? Because most of the people in the world never get to the point where they actually have their first paying customers and now you re beyond that. So it might seem like a small number but in all of businesses being built and the amount of people that actually want to go out there and be entrepreneur, the first customer opens the flood gates to actual grow a business. So no business is ever going to exist without getting one customer and then the second and then the third. So you ve done things well. What would you say -- if you wanted to brag a little bit -- what went well for you that allowed you to actually do what most people can t? I think the thing that ultimately has been working in my favor is the fact that I only have an hour in the morning and an hour at night so I have to be like super focused and only do the things that are going to get me the most impact. I think most people would hear, Oh, you only going to work on it like an hour a day, sometimes less, you know? And that s like a negative but it s actually -- We work from home a couple of days a week and on those days a week, I try and manufacture the same thing where it s like I have this set time that I can work on Smart Video Metrics to really force myself to focus. Because if I had a whole day, I probably fill up that whole day but it probably wouldn t be as effective as having it be incredibly focus like a one-hour window. Awesome. I like that. So essentially the short amount of time that you ve got to do this was a benefit to you because you just knew I ve got to be 100% focus during this time. Yeah. Help me be picky on what to do. I love that. I love that. Very cool.
16 Okay, so we re going to do -- Jeff s going to do a special $1 trial for 14 days for listeners of the podcast. So, Jeff, do you want to talk it all about what kind of things they should go and look for? Yeah. You guys are using videos or at companies you work for, whatever it may be, if you re using videos in your marketing, you do definitely have to be tracking how well they work. To make it easy, we re going to team up with Foundation and provide the two-week trial like Frank was talking about. Frank, I believe we ll just put a link in the show notes for that? That s right. We ll get everybody a link in the show note. So if you guys are using video in your companies, in your own companies, go and try this essentially riskfree and see what Jeff s talking about. See why there is value in tracking the money and the time and the energy and the resources that you re spending in these videos. Awesome. Well, Jeff, it s been awesome to hear about your journey. Congratulations on your first couple of customers. I expect good things from you. But thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. It s been such a blast. Alright, Jeff. Thanks.
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