How to Create a Wildly Successful Challenge that Fuels Your Business with Niamh Arthur

Transcription

1 Thank you for downloading this transcript! You can listen to the original podcast here: Today s Guest I'm so excited to introduce Niamh Arthur, this week's guest. Niamh is an expert on connection marketing through videos, and she's made it all possible through hosting tremendously successful video challenges that have grown exponentially. Today we talk about the power of video (even when you hate watching videos yourself) and how to create a wildly successful challenge that feeds into your business offerings. About Niamh Niamh Arthur was working at a major coffee chain in 2011 with her second baby on the way when she got the call from HR that she was not going to be entitled to any maternity pay. It was a crushing moment, but triggered Niamh to finally make the decision to do that thing she d been feeling more and more intrigued by becoming an online entrepreneur. In the years since Niamh has built three successful online businesses, created multiple six figure incomes, impacted thousands of people in the online space, worked with hundreds of clients and customers and turned that maternity leave into permanent leave. Her secret technique: Connection Marketing. Building a business by creating genuine and scalable connections to her ideal audience, and allowing sales and success to be a byproduct of real relationships. Niamh now focuses on teaching online entrepreneurs Connection Marketing through video. She helps them learn how to be themselves on video and use it as a tool to reach a large number of people while creating true connections. She holds challenges several times a year for thousands of coaches and entrepreneurs to help them practice their video skills and gain comfort. She also runs Light It Up! Video Marketing, a vibrant active community of video creators who support each other and have fun while they learn and grow their video skills and marketing strategy. Niamh and her family live in the countryside of Ireland surrounded by green, with foxes, bunnies, and cows as her nearest neighbours. What You ll Learn How and why Niamh created her first wobbly video (she wasn't perfect from the get go!) How Niamh started her first challenge with a fresh new community How much time it actually takes to run a challenge, and how to manage the rest of your schedule How far in advance to market your challenge for maximum impact and participation How Niamh has adapted her challenge as it's grown exponentially over the past 18 months How to pick a juicy topic that people will jump to sign up to Page -1-

2 How to feed the challenge into your business offerings in a way that feels natural and organic What Niamh's team looks like and who helps with what on her challenges Things We Discussed Light it Up Video Marketing community Connect with Niamh Website Facebook Facebook Fanpage Youtube Transcript Hello and welcome to the Business Mindset Podcast, episode 199. This is your host Holly Worton, and I am here with today's special guest, Niamh Arthur. Niamh focuses on teaching online entrepreneur connection marketing through video. She helps them learn how to be themselves on video, and use it as a tool to reach a large number of people, while creating true connections. She holds challenges several times a year, for thousands of coaches and entrepreneurs to help them practice their video skills and gain comfort. She also runs Light it Up Video Marketing, a vibrant, active, community of video creators who support each other, and have fun, while they learn and grow their video skills and marketing strategy. So, welcome Niamh! Niamh: Ah, thank you; I am so happy to be here Holly! I am so happy to talk about videos and challenges and, like, all the good stuff! Niamh: [Laughing] That's what I love talking about, so I think we are going to have fun! Good, good, good; we are on the same page! So, why don't you start out by telling us a little bit about your background, and your business journey, and how you got to where you are today. Niamh: Oh, wow, okay. So, I actually have quite a long business journey, because I have actually been in the online marketing space, for more than 10 years. But it is only in the last, you know, since about 2011, that I became really successful online. So, I feel like there is this time period where you are figuring it out, and seeing the lay of the land, and, what really triggered for me becoming an online entrepreneur, was, I was working at a major coffee corporation - which is probably the one you are thinking of, but I try not to name them - and, I got a call from HR, I was pregnant with my son; and they told me that I wasn't actually entitled to any maternity pay, even though they had paid me previously. And, so that was kind of a giant shock to the system, but also like a real push to, finally, really give it a go, to kind of you Page -2-

3 know say: I'm not dabbling in this online stuff anymore, I really need to do something where my family income isn't reliant on the decisions on some random person in HR. Yes. Niamh: So, at that point then, I really dedicated myself, I was able to take my, you know, maternity leave months and create a successful business very quickly in that. And since then, I have gone on to create multiple six-figure businesses. I am, you know, kind of glossing it over, I have gone through various different things. I started out, actually more as an affiliate, selling affiliate tools, and then, went to begin to create and design my own programmes. I did one-on-one work, and then I ended up realising that, everything that I had done to become successful, was using this idea of connection marketing. This idea of, marketing from a place where I am working on building true connections and then allowing people to decide that they want to move forward in my work, and primarily that was through video. And, I realised that there were a lot of people either not doing video, or doing it in a way that actually creates distance, rather than connection. And I thought, you know, here is something that I have, that I can teach people, that I have made hundreds of videos to make my business successful, and so I started to do a challenge. One day, I was walking through the park and - I had been actually in video challenges myself and found them really fun, and really exciting - and I just suddenly thought: you know what? I want to do a challenge. And that was about 18 months ago, and, I started my first challenge with like 30 people in it, and it was so much fun, and it was so impactful, that I decided to continue doing it. I think I have done five or six now at this point, I have kind of lost count, but they do it has been really incredible, because of the power of the challenges; people love them and then they go and they share them, and what's happened is the challenge has grown exponentially -- it pretty much doubles every time I offer a new one. So, it is has been fun, because it has also been like playing with my own capacity for growing something pretty rapidly but, yeah, I love it. I really, really, love both teaching people how to just, show up as they are and kind of let go of all of this stuff that we feel that we are supposed to be doing, and just be real people, and, what that does, is it takes these You know, these videos kind of go out and they reach your target audience, and they make them see the real person behind a brand. You know, I think we are all a little bit branded out, and marketed out, and you know there is only so much you can do with copy. And I think that if you can just show people the real person it makes this genuine connection that then makes your audiences remember you and go oh, I want to go with this person I want what they are talking about. And, so, that's why it has been, I think, such a joy to experience and be part of other entrepreneurs journey with video. And how did you first get to video? Was it just like: oh I will just try this and see what happens? Or, did you have like a kind of distinct gut feeling that it was going to be important for you? Niamh: Oh okay; so, the reason I started video was because I had a big goal; so, I went to a marketing event and, at that event, I decided that at the following event I wanted to be so successful that they would invite me onto stage to talk about how amazing I am. [Laughing] Page -3-

4 Niamh: This was a goal that I had in mind! I thought, you know, no-one will believe me if I say: I had this goal at the previous event - like, these two events were about 100- days apart. And, this was actually the time when I was actually at it was a make or break moment, my maternity leave was finishing, and I had to be making enough to support the family, by the time it was done. So, I said: okay I am going to make this a really fun goal but I figured that in order to have people really believe me because, as soon as someone is successful you feel like now they are different or special, or not like you, or they don't have the same Like, you feel like they came from some special background [laughing]. So, I wanted to show other people that I was just a normal person, without success, and that in 100 days I could do something awesome. And so, I recorded a video in my hotel room at the event. I had this like old digital camera - you know those digital cameras where you would have to stick a card in it, and then you would still take the card to go get them printed off Mm hmm. Niamh: at a 24-hour place or whatever. And it would do video, but not terribly well. And, so, I recorded this video stating my goal; and my idea was that I was going to document the whole thing. I was trying to make the goal more fun and less stressful for myself really. And, so, I thought: if I am going to try to make this cool documentary for other people, I won't be so worried about what I am doing for myself. So, I recorded this video but I was holding the camera and my hand was shaking so badly, I was just so scared. And, I was talking really fast, and my voice was shaking, I mean it was a horrible video, it was really bad. [ laughing] It took me like 20 takes [ oh!] or something Like, you know, when you keep going: oh my god I sound like an idiot or aghh this is horrible, I have to do it again. So, I really struggled with that video. But, then I came back and I continued to make videos to sort of document the journey; and I did actually begin to get a lot more comfortable as I just kept talking about how inspiring it would be for somebody, and because I wasn't thinking about myself, it really made me able to overcome some of my own fears. So, what ended up happening, is that I did have enough success to be invited on stage at the next event. And they played my video, and it was funny, because it was actually shaking so bad that they put a stabiliser on it, but the stabiliser wouldn't like the whole video was shaking so it showed a strip of my forehead and that was it!! [Laughing] Niamh: But I realised then, at that event, people were coming up to me afterwards and telling me how amazing it was, and I had a lady, like, follow me to the bathroom stall, which was kind of really weird. [Laughing] But, it was like, it had impacted people to this very deep level, to see that. And, all of a sudden, I realised that it doesn't matter what you say, when people see you on screen, and hear what you are saying, and get to be part of your journey, it has such a strong impact. So, that's when I really realised, okay video has to be it. And I have just been making videos ever since. Mm I love that! And I, from my own experience, I have really hesitated to do videos, and I resisted videos, just because I don't like to watch videos, I prefer to read. And so, I really resisted videos for a long time, even though I knew they were an important way for people to get a feel for your style and your energy. But, once I started doing videos, it really changed things for me. I mean, I get clients all the Page -4-

5 time from my YouTube channel, even from videos that don't have massive amounts of views. I mean I have this one video that was widely successful, but most of them get less than 100 views; but I still get clients from it, because, people get a feel from what I like, and whether or not they like my style and my energy. Niamh: Yeah, I completely agree with that, like, I had the exact same experience, I have several videos on my YouTube channel that are real traffic drivers, and then most of them get 30 to 100 views but, you know, what you are doing is that you are creating this following of people who, like, really know you. And, it is really weird, you will go to events and people will be like: hey Niamh what's up? And they start talking to you about stuff in your life and you are like: whoa, who are you?. [Laughing]. And, it s because they feel like. you begin to feel like a friend. And I think that that's what's happened when you begin to show up on camera. Especially if you are, you know, a coach, or you are doing anything where you are working one-on-one. You know, it is really scary to book a call with somebody you don't know - even if it's free, even if they are going to be helping you. And, I feel like, if they can see the real person, then when they come onto the call, they actually feel safe, they feel like: oh it's Holly, I know what she's about, I know her philosophy from watching her videos, I know what her laugh sounds like. We are going to be good. You know, so I think that it does create that ease. But, I'm the same I don't, actually, watch a lot of videos myself, but I will usually check out videos when I am sort of deciding what I think about someone, I will go and watch a few of their videos to get a feel, and then read their stuff to get really clear on what they do. Yeah I think that's and I think that's a really good point; that you don t have to be a massive fan of videos in order to make them work for you. Niamh: Of yeah, for sure. I mean, like, it s really hilarious, because people will be like did you see this video, did you see that video? But I'm not really a video person! [Laughing] So, but I do find that I watch a lot more video now, because I have a lot of people that I have helped train on it, and that's one of my favourite things too is seeing people who have been through a challenge or who have been part of Light it Up. You know, out there recording videos, I really then enjoy watching those videos, it's fun. Mm so let's talk a little bit about your challenge, because I think it is really interesting what you have said, I think it really has grown through word of mouth, and it has grown exponentially; how did you get the people on your first challenge? And how did things kind of evolve from there? Niamh: Okay, yeah, that's a great question! So, the first challenge was the toughest one - because I had nothing to go off of except that, I knew what I was doing, in terms of actually creating videos. So, I could say: oh this is what I have been able to do with videos, and now I want to help you. So, what I came up with was figuring out what is a problem that I can really help people solve, within this challenge. So, when you are talking to people who don't know who you are; you kind of have to go into their world, and talk to them where they're at, to bring them into your world. And I find that once you become fairly successful, and people know who you are, then you can start to invent your own terms - now I start to talk about connection marketing, which is kind of an invented term, and I talk about impact and these other words that I have made up. But, at that point, I really thought: okay, what does this challenge do?, and so I focussed on the problem of being uncomfortable on camera. Because, that's how most of us start out, we know it's impactful, we know that it's going to help our business, but, unless you are a millennial, you are Page -5-

6 probably not, like, instantly comfortable - and even then I am sure that's a generalisation, I think there are plenty of millennials who aren't comfortable immediately - but, I find that, for the vast majority of us it is like a new way of communicating. And, the first time that you turn on your camera it is really uncomfortable. So, I had felt that, you know, I had that shaky start, and I figured what I could do is create this safe practice space for people, where it could both just let them practice and also teach them how to make their videos look good because that's the other thing that entrepreneurs face is, you don't want to record a video that looks totally unprofessional and have that representing you, but you have to learn, some way; you know, you have to practice. So, I wanted to create the challenges as a way for people to practice. So, what I did was, create a landing page with a video, and then I just went around into different groups I was in, and told you know, with groups, especially on Facebook, you have to be really conscious that you are within group guidelines, and things like that. So, I went around to the various groups that I was already in, that I was engaging in, and I would post on the appropriate day, and use whatever hashtag they told me to use, and say: I am doing this challenge. I think I had about 50 people register, and then I had about 30 people actually go through it, but it was hard, it was hard work. I spent the whole week, just going round constantly talking challenge, challenge, challenge and what was so amazing was, that from there, it was never that hard again. Because, I had given people a really great experience so that the next time it came up, I said to the people who had been through it before: hey, if you have a friend who is uncomfortable on camera, and you want to share this experience, go ahead and share it. And people loved sharing it and then I started to use affiliates and it s just really sort of snowballed up from there. But that first one was hard, and I really don't have a traffic secret, it was really just going out and talking to people where they were at, and talking to them about the problem they already had. And did you have a fairly large community at that time or were you, kind of, starting...? Niamh: Oh no, I was starting fresh. So, I had spent a lot of time as an affiliate marketer in a company that I suppose falls into the category of network marketing. And, I had for a while in that space been feeling like I want to do there are things in me that want to be expressed, I want to be doing more than just sharing someone else's product. So, it was a fantastic start for me, and I made a lot of money doing it, and I really learned a lot about marketing, but, I was at this point where I was trying to do a big pivot in my business, and begin to sell and share my own products. And, so, the challenge was actually for me, I wasn t originally seeing it as a big thing to sell stuff. I was seeing it as a way of introducing myself to this new audience. I really wanted to shift my audience from the people who were in jobs, and struggling, and wanting to make money from home, to more of the people who were already in the online space, maybe not exactly knowing what they were doing, and trying to learn how to market in ways that feel good. Because, I had noticed that a lot of entrepreneurs feel like if you are in it for a heart-based reason and you feel really excited about what it is you are doing, and you have a big message to share with the world, then the marketing tactics and strategies can feel really icky, and really uncomfortable. So, I wanted to show people how I had taken selling online marketing products, which a lot of other people sold in kind of icky, classical online marketing ways, and Page -6-

7 I had sold it in ways that had felt good for me. So, I really wanted to bring myself in front of this new audience, which was part of what having a challenge was about. So, I did have an audience, but they weren't really in the space that I wanted to use, so it really felt to me, like starting from scratch. Mm. So, what would your top tips be for someone who is thinking about creating a challenge, but they are not quite sure, because everyone seems to be doing a challenge these days. Should they do it, should they not? And how do they make it work? Niamh: I think the key is turning a very, very, specific problem that you can solve within the scope of the challenge, because I think that we tend to specially in the health industry, or in the personal development industry, we tend to speak in very vague terms. And we also tend to be a little bit shy of directly talking about actual problems. Now, I am not talking about: go aggravate a bunch of pain points, which isn't really my thing, but think about exactly where your audience is, and if you have like a programme that solves a big problem for them, think about the smaller subset of problems that they might have that you can help solve. So, if you are trying to help them lose weight, that's a big problem, maybe you could hone in on helping them learn how to plan out their weekly grocery list, and actually buy stuff for that specifically. You know, that's just kind of off the top of my head, but that s the kind of thing you are looking for; taking the bigger problem that you solve, and coming up with smaller problems that your audience already has, that they are actually already looking to solve. So, I know that if someone wants to do video, they have to overcome this discomfort. That they are just not going to do it, if they don't find a way to do it that's fun and easy, and where they can just be themselves. So, I can help them solve that problem, and then introduce them to my ongoing video marketing training, and community, as a way that now that you are comfortable, here's how you do the thing that you really want to do, which is market using video; and using really fun and exciting video marketing tactics. So, that's the way you want to think about it.so, that would be my first tip; zoning in on a very specific, very focussed problem that you can solve, for them within the range of the challenge. And the second thing would be: focussing on their engagement with your work. So, with every decision that you make with your challenge, you want to do it from a viewpoint of what's going to be the best way I can get them really engaging with this work? So, with video it is easy I am telling them: go and record a video every day. But, you want to think about what s their daily task - that they do within the challenge that really gives them a really active experience. The more action they take within the challenge, the more impactful it will be for them. So, you always want to be thinking within those terms. Like, for example, people ask me a lot I shared a video - in my challenge, I shared a video from me every day going over my topic, like a topic for them to answer and a tip and often people will say oh I'm behind, can you just send me the topic and tip written out. And I always say no, because I know if I force them (I know that sounds terrible!) [ laughing] to watch this video, what happens is, they will much more deeply understand the tip, and it will also get them to know me further. So, it does a few things for me at the same time. So, I will always make them watch the video, in order to complete the task; and then they know they are going to have a much deeper understanding of the tip of why that tip is in place, and what it will do for them in their video strategy, and so that I know that they are then going to have Page -7-

8 a better experience of the work. So, sometimes it means making decisions that aren't exactly what your audience wants, but what will be best for your audience. Now, how far in advance do you market the challenges, because I know if you are really encouraging activity, because this is as a challenge, people need to have the time in their schedule to actually do those actions. So, how far in advance do you plan to let people know so they can really be active because I know I have signed up for so many challenges that were really exciting, but when I started going it was like ah, this is not a priority, like, I don't have time for this [laughing]. Niamh: Yeah, I get what you mean in that there are If they can plan for it, they probably would make more time; but I actually find that once someone has decided to do a challenge, you want them start as quickly after that decision as possible, while it is still fresh, and while they are still excited about it. So, there are kind of two problems wrapped up in one there The one is: how do I let them know about it? At what point do I let them know about it? And the second problem is: how do I get them to keep prioritising it throughout the challenge? But, in terms of that first one it s.i usually market about a week in advance. [HW: oh!]. So, if my challenge is starting on a Monday, I will usually market from the Monday before, and who I tell in advance is the affiliates - so my affiliates will be starting to think about how they want to share the challenge, who they want to share it to, and within my community as well. So, people kind of know there's something coming, but they don't know exactly when or exactly the dates. And then I promote for a week, and then close promotion and we just focus on getting down to it. I do like to be inclusive though, so I always tell people: you know, if you are part way through and you are loving it, you can always bring friends in and I have had people join on the final day of a 30-day challenge and still record all 30 videos. [ wow!] So, there is no, there is really no magic formula. So, I think what it's about is: helping them feel like they are part of something which will genuinely help them. So, I like to, from day one, make it sort of fun and light, I like to sort of ease them into it, and yeah, and try and help them rack up wins, pretty quickly as well. So, you say that you have done this challenge about five or six times now, how has it changed since the very first time you ran it, or are you still using the same structure and videos? Niamh: It has changed a lot actually one thing that really helped was, I was kind of just always running it the same, but I would learn kind of on my feet - so I found the second challenge, it got so bit that I couldn't watch all the videos myself. That was kind of sad. [Laughing]. But you know, I there are 70 people participating, two minutes each, it ends up being hours every day, out of your day, so yeah each challenge I have actually made changes. At this point now, I wanted to preserve the feel of my initial challenge, with those 30 people which was really connected, and really close knit, and people had a fun time together. So, a couple of challenges ago, I introduced having circles: so when someone registers for one of my challenges they are actually assigned into a circle, where we have a circle leader someone who has done the challenge before, to sort of hold the space for them. But, then they are interacting with the same group of people every day, so they do get the sense of continuity and support, so that's been a big change, and that one has been really successful and really helpful for me. For me, it has been all about: how can I continue to grow and upscale, while still keeping the underlying intentions and principles. I want to be inclusive, I never want to close the doors on a challenge and say: now we are full. I like to make it so that people can fall behind and feel Page -8-

9 like it is safe to catch up. So, there are all of these different considerations. One thing that has come in actually, what I started to do a couple of challenges ago is, survey people at the end of the challenge, and that has really helped me think about their experience. Because when you are first constructing a challenge, you are thinking from your perspective: what's going to work? And then people go through and they will let you know, say no this wasn't the best way to do this or whatever. So, I started to take weekends off we used to go 30 days straight and it was super intense Wow! Niamh: But I found that taking weekends off let's people have a breath, and if you are behind it lets them catch up. So, that's been a really good change, and yeah, there have been little adjustments like that along the way to help You know, I always operate on principles, so my principle is: what's going to help the most people have the most impactful experience here? Mm hmm; and how much time does it take for you? Because 30 days is a big challenge - so do you block out the rest of your schedule during that time? Are you still seeing clients? And running other things in the background? How does that work for you? Niamh: Oh yeah; it is interesting. I have... and not all my challenges are 30-days, I have actually just done one called shine which is a 10-day one, as an experiment to play around with the structure. But, it is pretty intense; so I usually will have some stuff happening in the background, I have my Light It Up Video Marketing Community, which is my paid video marketing training area. So, I keep a lot of focus on that. What I do is, I separate time slots, so normally I operate in a very fluid sort of way with my day. It is like: what do I feel like doing? And when do I feel like taking the time off? And then when I have a challenge running, I have to be incredibly structured, because what happens is, there's more work than you could ever do. Like, I could go and watch as many videos as I could possibly could and not have enough time. Now we are at the point with 1000s of people take part in a challenge, I can't watch 1000s of videos a day, it is like physically impossible. [ laughing] So, what I have done, is create a lot more structures, and I hired an assistant actually - a VA - about I think for the third challenge, and that has been invaluable, having someone to take care of the tech set up, and those kinds of aspects. And then, it leaves me free to do the things where I am most valuable, in terms of recording my videos, and, interacting and support. So, I separate out a certain number of half hour slots per day, where I am going to go in and interact in the challenge, and I have a set list of what do I do in a half hour slot? and it is: first I go and hit the new people a video, so I can say hi to the new people. Then I hit the FAQ thread, to see if there are any questions I need to answer, and then I hit these five circles; and the next day it is a different five circles -- and that's how I rotate through and organise. But it's challenging, I don't get it perfect all the time. No, but I think that's really interesting to see how you have brought in more support each time, because obviously as it grows exponentially you are going to need more help managing it, so that it functions properly. Niamh: Oh yeah, and actually, a couple of challenges ago, I hired a strategist, and that was amazing. Because she could help me see what I am doing that is sort of redundant, and important, and she helped me whittle down my to-do list and so I could focus on the things where I am going to have the most impact. So again, we Page -9-

10 have this guiding principle of impact -- what is going to be the most impactful experience for people? Where are my hours going to be spent most impactfully? And what can we take off? --because I tend to put a lot of stuff onto my list, I want to do everything for everyone. So, she helps keep me really laser-targeted, in terms of just doing the things that really matter, and letting go of ideas that are good, but not necessarily going to have a massive impact in the end results. Mm. Excellent. So, how does this challenge feed into your business, what do people do after they have gone through the challenge? Niamh: Oh well, I have the final couple of days of the challenge; I usually open up a special promotion, for my Light It Up Video Marketing Community. That's actually, I think when this goes out - that's the exact phase I am going to be in, there is a challenge finishing up, and then I open up a promotion. And, so, what I do is I offer usually a discounted rate of some kind for going into my ongoing Light It Up Video Marketing Membership Site, which is, you know, part training, part community support. So, the idea is that if someone comes to the end of a challenge and they have had a very impactful experience of my work, and then I just introduce Light it up as the next step for them to take. So this is, you know: if you enjoy this, then there's this plus all this other stuff over here So, I have all my recorded challenges in there, so if they want to go through a different challenge, if they want to, you know, take next steps, there's road maps, there's all kinds of stuff. So, I will usually do a bit of.so first on the final days of the challenge, I let them know that there is a special price now available. And then, usually right after a challenge ends, I will do like a walk through tour of what they will get from that, and then I just them to follow up for that week and remind them that a special promotion is going to close. I do like to have a promotion so that it gives them a reason to do it right now, and I very much position it as: this is the next stage in your video journey. So: if you liked this part, you are going to love this next part. So, what I love about that is that then, instead of having to sell, I pretty much rely on the fact that they, at this point, know how I work. And they know what kind of impact my work can have on their videos, and on their business, and so I kind of just rely on that. That s why I put all this work, and time and effort into a free challenge, because it means that you don't really have to sell so much you are just letting them know what's the appropriate next step for them. Mm I love that. So, you have got your challenges, you have got your Light it Up video community, do you have any other ways that people can work with you? Niamh: I do! It is funny, I focus almost exclusively on Light it Up video marketing, that's really kind of where my heart is, but I do some one-on-one work with clients, I do strategy sessions on video strategy, I do strategy on using connection marketing in your business. So, I do that but I do it very lightly, I find that you know, for me, my most impactful work is creating videos and working with my community. So I do, do a bit of that, but I am very much focussed on my membership site. Excellent. So, where can people find you online and connect with you and learn more about you? Niamh: I think probably best place is my website, which is: but you will have to check out the show notes to be able to spell that [laughing]. It is not an easy name to spell! So, there; and, also, I hang out my hangout space is Facebook. If you want to come and shoot me a friend request, I love connecting with people on Facebook. I find that's like where I am at, I don't spend a lot of time on the other social sites. Page -10-

11 Excellent. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I think you have shared really specific, and useful, information for people who are maybe thinking about doing a challenge but they are not quite sure where to start, so now they do. Niamh: Yeah, thanks Holly, it was a total delight! Yay, excellent! So, thank you for joining us and thank you for listening and remember to visit hollyworton.com/199 for the show notes on this episode. Thank you. Page -11-