Brian Timoney s World of Acting Show. Episode 7: Typecasting: A good or bad thing?

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Brian Timoney s World of Acting Show Episode 7: Typecasting: A good or bad thing? [0:00:00] One man One mission: To rid the world of low-standard and mediocre acting, once and for all.

1 Brian Timoney s World of Acting Show Episode 7: Typecasting: A good or bad thing? [0:00:00] One man One mission: To rid the world of low-standard and mediocre acting, once and for all. Brian Timoney, the world s leading authority on Method Acting, brings you powerful, impactful, volcanic acting and business of acting techniques in his special Acting Podcasts. It s Brian Timoney s World of Acting unplugged and unleashed. Brian: Hi everybody, and welcome onto this podcast. As always, I m joined with Rob here today. Rob: Hello! Brian: So, Rob, today we re going to be talking about typecasting. Rob: Oh, yes. Brian: This is an interesting one because often someone will come up to me and say, You know what? What I really don t want is to be typecast. Rob: Well, they d better get used to it, buddy, because they re going to be and that s for sure. Brian: Well, you re right. But the other thing is, I usually say to them, If you re going to get typecast, go ahead, my friend because you know what? That s a way in. it s a foot in the door. But people sometimes think about typecasting in a negative way, whereas actually it s not really. Rob: Well, I think about it in a very positive way. It means I get work, you know? I ve been typecast, I m sure I always seem to get similar sort of roles and I welcome it! I welcome it! Why not? And you know what, Brian? Look; as human beings, we all fall into a category;

2 whether we like it or not, we do fall into a category. That s a fact of life. And so casting directors, producers, directors, they pick up on what category you fall in. Now, I don t mean this from the point of view of your physical appearance necessarily, but it s rather what you emit as a human being, what the real authentic you emits the you that everyone knows and loves. The you that is the real you. This is what exudes from you, and this is what casting directors will pick up on and you will, whether you like it or not, be cast based on that. [0:01:57] Brian: Well, you re absolutely right. And the thing is, when you walk into an audition, casting directors and agents, within the first couple of minutes well, less than that; seconds probably, the first 30 seconds Rob: Five seconds. Five seconds. Brian: Yes, they say that: from the walk from the door walking in the door to the audition room to the chair seven seconds, roughly Rob: Which is also about the average time, by the way, that casting directors will look at your photograph five seconds. Brian: Yes. So they re already assessing you in that time and they re very good at it because they spend all their days doing it, so they pick up very quickly on what you type might be. Here s the thing, though, Rob, because I think sometimes people can get a bit delusional about what their type is. There s an internal image that people have about themselves and this kind of affects headshots as well in a way but we ll cover that another day because that s a big topic. But what they tend to do is there can be an internal image; people see themselves in a certain way and they think that is where they re castable. Rob: You see, the thing is, they see themselves in the way that they would like other people to see them but it isn t always the case. For example, I ve got a guy, a friend of mine, and he s, I don't know, he must weight all of about seven stone, so he s a very slight guy, there s no muscle on him at all but he would like to be seen as the big hard man. Well, he s never going to be not in the eyes of casting directors. Yes, he can be a dangerous man, he can be an evil man, but he s not going to be the big hard man; he s not going to be Schwarzenegger. Brian: That s a great point, actually. I remember as well this actress I knew who s a lovely girl, and had great comic timing she had a lot going for her, but in her mind, she saw herself playing these romantic leads. But the way that she looked and her demeanour and the way

3 she came across didn t support that; to be quite frank, she was a bit heavy, a bit overweight, and she was quirky, she was unusual she wasn t pretty in the sense of what we would imagine a romantic lead to be like. But she had something about her that was very castable. But the thing that held her back was she didn t want to play the roles that she was good for; she wanted to play the roles that, in her head, she wanted to play. And sometimes it takes a good hard look in the mirror, Rob, and looking at yourself and going, What kind of type am I? And actually I ll give you another tip on getting type in a minute, because Rob s got something important to say next. But you ve got to take that long, hard look and think, Where do I fit? And be really honest with yourself. And you have to look at what the industry is casting as well, and see where you fit. [0:04:37] Rob: Sure. I mean, one can and you often see it a lot you can cast against type, and you can play against type. For example, I mentioned Schwarzenegger a moment ago: Schwarzenegger, as we know, is a big guy; he s got muscles on his spit! He s a really big guy. But he could be cast as the timid guy that gets bullied. That would be interesting, wouldn t it somebody like Schwarzenegger being the timid guy that gets bullied. But it s unlikely. Brian: Well, you say that, but I was listening to an interview with Schwarzenegger about this, and you how he was in the film Twins, well, that all came about because it was a director that used to hang out with Arnold Schwarzenegger and knew him as a friend, and he said, You know, Arnold, one of the things that I ve never seen you play in any of your movies is this you re very playful, and actually there s a naivety about you; there s a sort of sense and fund and naivety and jolliness. I ve never seen you, in any film you re in, doing that. And he said, Why don t we write a film that embraces that? And actually we did see a totally different side to him. Rob: And put the brilliant Danny DeVito in it as well I m a big fan of Danny DeVito. But, you see, the thing is, if the director saw that in Schwarzenegger, then that was typecasting. That is typecasting because he saw that type in Schwarzenegger, and he said, Come on this is the sort of stuff you should be doing as well. [0:06:02] Brian: Yes, absolutely. And actually I ve got an interesting story about this typecasting scenario, Rob. There s an actress in Hollywood; her name s Laura Cayouette. She actually wrote a really good book it was called Know Small Parts, and she kind of talks about the fact that she d built a career playing small roles, and she was initially always very typecast in

4 the roles that she got. She s very tall, she s very thin, very classically sort of beautiful really, and she was always getting roles where she either had to be in her underwear or in a bikini. And she said, You know what? Initially it was fine, but I got to the point where I wanted to play other roles. And she was actually in a bar and she met as you do in LA you meet Quentin Tarantino Rob: Oh, yes, of course all the time. Brian: and they really got on, they really hit it off. And they had this conversation, and she said, You know what? I m really sick of playing these roles where I m in my bikini or in my underwear. And he says, You know what? I really want to cast you in something and I swear to God I will never do that to you. Fast forward a while and guess what happens? He does cast her, and he does want to cast her in something where she s not in her bikini or her underwear, but as things panned out, that role went to somebody else or it got cut and guess what? She ended up in a role where she had to be in her underwear. And she tells this story and actually it s really interesting because she said, You know what? I got sick of playing these roles, but I didn t let that affect me when I turned up to do the job. She said, I took the job. I turned up. Okay, I was in my underwear again but I was working with Quentin Tarantino. And he came up to me and he said, Look, I know you didn t want to play this sort of role, but I swear to you, something will come up in the future and we ll do work again. And what happened was, fast forward five or six years, and he made Jango Unchained, and he cast her opposite Leonardo DiCaprio, and she played his sister in that movie. And she said, You know what? Typecasting gets you in the door. It sets your career up then, from there, hopefully you can make changes if you want to. But you should never turn your back on it. [0:08:25] Rob: That s it. Then from there, once you ve established yourself in a string of small or medium-sized or large-sized roles, even if it is typecast, once you ve established yourself exactly, just to reiterate on what you ve just said yes, then you can say, Okay, I m going to hold out for the part, or you can reinvent yourself and hold out for the parts you want so long as you reinvent yourself within the framework of what you truly are and not some plastic imitation of what you want to be. It s got to be what you truly are. But that girl that was complaining about appearing in bikinis all the time you know what I think, in all seriousness, at the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git? I think that she should stop complaining and just thank her lucky stars that she s in a

5 Brian: To be fair, Rob I ll stop you there; she wasn t complaining. Actually, she was saying that she had got to a point in her career where she wanted to play other things. And I can understand that. Rob: Yes. Brian: It wasn t like she said, Oh, guess what? I ve got another role playing She was just saying, You know what? I ve got to the point where I ve paid my dues I ve done the bikini thing. I m ready to move on into something else. So, to be fair, she wasn t in any way moaning about it. She was just saying, Look, it s time to move on to something different. If anything, she was embracing the fact that she had been typecast, because she said, I would never have met Quentin Tarantino and I would never have been in that movie unless I d been doing those sort of roles. Rob: One thing leads to another, of course, yes. Brian: So, Rob, here s the thing going back to this delusion thing, because I want to sort this out, because I ve seen this, I know this first-hand; I ve had people in the past who have said, I m not going up for this role because it s for a smaller role playing a bellboy in a film and I don t see myself that way, and people turn it down. I swear to God, hand on heart, I ve heard this Rob: I know! [0:10:15] Brian: and it s even a decent role and a decent director. Beyond me. But here s the thing to kind of understand your type, I suggest try this out: take a clipboard, go out into the street, dressed fairly neutrally, and ask 20 people, What kind of job do you think I do? And what age do you think I am? and so on, and they will give you an answer. And you might see a trend; maybe 10/12 people will say, Well, I think you re an accountant, or something like that, or, I think you re a policeman. And you might see a trend. And you ll also see a trend in your age as well. So it s a good way for an actor to get clear about what their type is. Rob: How they come across to other people, yes. Brian: Yes, because you cut out the delusion because you know what? If you ask enough people and you get a trend, it s not about opinion anymore and by the way, this is something that really bugs me: it s not about opinion; it s actually about what works. Because some people can have all different types of opinion about what your type is, what age you are

6 all these kind of things. The only way to really know is to ask enough people and you ll see a trend. [0:11:25] Rob: Yes. You ll see a trend as to how you come across to other people. That s right. And how you come across if it s coming from your real self and not your put-on self that you want people to see. Then, yes, you should take notice, sure. Sure, you should. It s great. But typecasting is inevitable, certainly at the beginning of your career and well into it sometimes. It is inevitable. So just accept it and embrace it because it s actually good for you, as an actor, to be typecast. It s good. Thank God I ve been typecast! If I hadn t have been, I wouldn t have worked half the jobs I ve done. You know, I normally get cast as scumbags and sleaze balls and that sort of thing but I mean, that s fine by me. It s good. It means I ve worked with some great directors. So don t be afraid of typecasting. Brian: Yes. And of course once you know your type, once you re clear about type because when you walk into the casting room, that is what they re going to see. That is what they re going to pick up on. Rob: Important point: you know, we said we d come back to photographs later, but I think it is relevant in the typecasting thing because of course what is your first port of call to a casting director? It is your photograph. That is your very first port of call. They spend an average of between three and five seconds looking at your photograph so you ve got three seconds to sell yourself. Three seconds to sell yourself in that first port of call, which is your photograph. So, your photograph this is a bugbear of mine actually, Bri how many actors and actresses do you know, Brian, that when you see their casting photograph, you think, Well, who s this? It looks nothing like them. What they ve done is they ve put their if it s a girl, and some guys they ve put loads of makeup on, they ve spent a lot of money on the hair, they ve had the photograph airbrushed, they ve put their designer clothes on. This is them as they would look for a wedding or something. They don t look anything like them. And so, important that your photographs look like you and represent the image that you consider your true self and typecastability to be. [0:13:44] Brian: You re right. It s an interesting topic, this, because, you know, we re working with students on this; we re taking their headshots. And it s interesting because sometimes people will have that internal image; they think a certain photograph might look better than the one that maybe I would choose, or an agent. And the interesting thing is, though, those are the

7 people who will end up sending a headshot I don't know about you, Rob, but more often than not, with my headshots as an actor, it was nearly always the agent that picked the headshot that they wanted to work with. Rob: Always get somebody else to choose your headshot preferably a partner who knows you and who says, Yes, this is you. This looks like you. You are coming out of that shot. Preferably a partner, a parent, a family member or a really good friend. Brian: Well, I have to disagree on that. Rob: Do you? Why? Brian: Yes. I would never this whole idea of asking a friend or family member because those people a) usually are not involved in the industry, and b) don t want to be honest. You know, they re also trying to please that person. Rob: But surely they ll pick the one that looks most like you. Brian: Well, you d be surprised. And also they don t know what actually sells in the industry. You know, what is it you re actually looking for in a headshot as well? It s like you re looking for that person; you re looking for something in the eyes there s all different factors that I think are completely oblivious to the man in the street (and no disrespect to the man in the street). But basically they re looking for the prettiest one; they re looking for the one that looks the nicest, with the right angle and that is not necessarily the one that will sell. And I can tell you from tests that we ve done when we ve carried out showcase marketing where we ve got lots of headshots on display and we send that out, we know that certain headshots will do better than others and attract attention, attract people in the door as well. But you re right: they ve got to be authentic; they ve got to be real to that person. [0:15:44] Rob: I think it s just warts and all, a phrase I ve used on a few occasions the thing that Cromwell said when he was having his picture done; he had warts all over his face and he said he wanted his painting to be painted warts and all, and this is where the expression comes from. So, to use that expression, so as the picture you have taken is warts and all and why try to hide the double chin if, when you walk into the room, they re going to see it? Don t try and hide anything at all because it s all good, actually. So if you ve got a slightly wonky eye, which I have, I don t try and hide that. In fact I make a feature of it!

8 Brian: Absolutely. What walks in the door is basically what has got to be in a headshot. Rob: Exactly. Brian: We ve kind of come off the subject slightly, about type, but it affects type. Rob: Yes. So, back to typecasting: it s a thing that s done almost unconsciously as well by the directors and producers and casting directors. They ve got this kind of image in their head of what they want and very often they don t know exactly what they want until they see it, by the way, but they ve got this very rough image in their head of what they want and that s it; that s what they re going to go for. So they want a guy that, when he walks into the room, is going to scare them. And if a guy is scary, then he s going to get cast. [0:17:10] Brian: Yes, absolutely. Rob: They re looking for the inner quality of the actor, not so much what they look like physically although that does come into it. But they re looking for the inner quality. You know, you pick up things about people; you meet someone for the first time and you go, Yes, I like this guy/this girl / I don t like him much. You pick up on things about people and they do as well. And whatever they pick up on, that s going to be your castability. Brian: Absolutely. So I think the main points to take out of this conversation, for everyone listening, are: don t be delusional about your type; get a clear picture of what your type is and actually there s nothing wrong with enhancing type as well. A friend of mine who s an actor, he was always going up for the edgy roles bad guys who were a bit out of shape and he decided that he wanted to be a bad guy who s really in shape and tattoos and all that kind of thing. So what he did was he said, I m in that sort of bracket but I want to enhance it a little bit; I want to see if I can develop it a little bit. And that s not a bad thing to do either; if you re already in a bracket, in a niche, then it s not a bad idea to say, Well, how can I bring that out more/how can I help make it more clear than what it currently is? And be honest about what the type is, and ask people on the street, What do you think I do? And that will make things a lot clearer. And don t turn your nose up at typecasting. Initially, if you re starting out, then go ahead get typecast. Do those roles as often as you can, because it s all about credits, at the end of the day, on your CV. Rob: That s it build up your CV, man. That s definitely what you want to be doing. Do you want to work, or do you want to sort of only accept the limited number of roles that you want? Or do you want to work?

9 [0:19:10] Brian: Yes. And actually that s a point that we haven t touched on until now: why we take the view of typecasting is not a bad thing, and other people, usually on the outside of the industry who are coming into it, do look at it negatively, is that we know initially it s about credits. It like when you ve got a CV that s fairly empty to begin with when you re starting out, your main objective is to fill that CV with as many credits as you can. So if that means that you re going up and you re playing the bad guy all the time, then that s what you do, because eventually there s enough credits on the CV to get more work and then eventually be able to play other types of roles. Rob: I mean, one guy that s been typecast, and he s now a huge Hollywood star I ll tell you his name in a minute without his typecasting, I m not sure he always plays the geek/geeky guy. Jim Carey I m talking about. And without that I bet you Jim Carey s pretty glad that he s been typecast as the geek, because he makes 25 million dollars a movie now [laughs]. [0:20:12] Brian: [laughs] Yes! And actually we see typecasting happening all the time in the big league, if you look. Look at Clint Eastwood I mean, Clint Eastwood had been playing the same character for, I don't know, 40 years. Rob: I happen to think Clint Eastwood s a great actor. Brian: He s a great actor. You know, nobody can do Clint Eastwood like Clint Eastwood. Nobody can do that kind of character better than Clint Eastwood. Rob: Exactly. Brian: And that s something to be proud of, from his point of view. There s no other actor on the planet that can do that as well as him. And so is it such a bad thing? I don't think so. Rob: It s a good thing. Brian: So, I think that basically brings us to the end of this discussion, Rob.

10 Rob: Well, we ve covered about five percent of typecasting but it s okay there s some good info there to listen back to. Brian: Okay. See you in the next one. Rob: Yes. Cheers. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Brian Timoney s World of Acting. For more great content, and to stay up to date, go to Make sure you listen next time when Brian brings you powerful, impactful, volcanic [0:21:21] End of Audio

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