Who is Scott Carson. Interview Series

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1 Who is Scott Carson Scott Carson has been in the mortgage, finance, and banking industry since 2001 and an active real estate investor since He has been actively buying notes on residential and commercial properties since He is the former senior investment coach for RealEstateProfitCoach.com along with being a nationwide speaker and educator on notes, creative real estate, and raising private capital. Scott graduated in 2001 from Texas State University at San Marcos (formerly Southwest Texas State University) with a bachelor s degree in Business Administration. When he isn t working with banks, he spends his free time enjoying traveling, golfing, music, sporting events, and spending time on Lake Travis. REISecrets.com

2 Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. This is Stacy Kellams and welcome to another REI Secrets monthly interview. I ve got a great one lined up for you this month. I m lucky to have a guy by the name of Scott Carson on the phone with me right now. I ll tell you a little bit about Scott. One, he s been a full-time real estate investor for the last seven years. The thing that I m super excited about is he s right here in my home town. I m in Austin, Texas. He s actually up just a little bit north of me, about 20 miles north of me in Leander, Texas. But for all intents and purposes Leander is just a suburb of Austin. So, we re basically right here in the exact same market. And that just goes to show you, like I say all the time, there s no such thing as competition. There are more than enough deals out there for everyone. I do my deals, Scott does his deals and we ve got some mutual friends we already chatted about. Obviously they re out there doing deals as well. So, don t worry about your competition. And I ve said that all along. In fact, Scott is doing types of deals that I ve never done before. So, I m super excited to talk to him about what he s doing. He s buying defaulted commercial notes from banks right now. That s a huge, huge, huge opportunity and is going to get even bigger over the coming years. Because you re starting to see now in the media, the media s starting to talk about the defaulted commercial notes that are coming down the pike. They ve been kind of been holding those off the market. Scott s right in there. He s got his ear to the ground and he knows exactly what s going on in that market. He s got the pulse of it. 2

3 So, we re going to chat about that. We re going to chat about how he got started as a real estate investor and how he got into what he s doing right now and all that stuff. So, Scott, welcome to today s call. Thank you so much for being here, man. Stacy, thanks for having me. I m looking forward to it. Me too. I told them just a little bit about you. Why don t you go ahead and tell us just a little bit more? Tell us what you were doing right before you got into real estate, how you got into it. Okay. Well, I got started back in I bought my first home with nothing down. I was all excited about that, had perfect credit and was one of these individuals that like to watch the whole Flip This House series on TLC or A&E or whatever the heck that is, like most people like to do, House Swap or whatever. With my good credit I was able to buy a couple houses with nothing down and the promise I was going to be able to rent them out and do all this other stuff. And low and behold six months later I was out of a job as a financial advisor and the market had changed a little bit here in Austin and I was basically in preforeclosure in all three of these houses. So luckily enough I was able to get my assets covered and get rid of two of them and keep the primary residence and took a little hiatus. I was kind of, you know, I had to lick my wounds for a while. I was working some jobs and got stuff back in gear and was working as a banker with JP Morgan Chase. I had had a buddy of 3

4 mine that came to me that I had known for a couple of years and had been a financial advisor with. He hooked up with a couple local investors here who travel the country and teach people how to invest had just started a mortgage company with them. He needed some help. And so, I went and had lunch him and realized it s really what I wanted to get back into doing, but it was an opportunity that I couldn t pass up, because it was a chance for me to be mentored and kind of learn the right things to do versus the wrong thing that I d done earlier. And a few weeks later was traveling to LA and was in the back of a Ron LeGrand investment seminar and was taking notes. And over the next year or two I had gone to probably a hundred thousand dollars worth of educational courses and started coming back and applying what I learned. I mean, I started sending out yellow letters and the pre-foreclosure lists and was lucky enough that I was the first batch of 50 letters I sent out I got a couple hits. I was kind of rocking and rolling from that point on. Well, I love that, you know, we talked about this a little bit before the call. I love the fact that you re willing to openly share that it wasn t all a bed of roses right out of the gate. You had a little bit of a rough spot, rough patch, but you didn t give up. That s, I think, the lesson that everybody needs to take away from that. It might not be a bed of roses right out of the gate. And you might not hit a home run on your very first deal, but you can t give up. What would have happened if you would have given up? 4

5 I d be sitting at a job that I hated working 40 hours a week being a drone. There have been ups and downs since then, but I wouldn t change what I ve done for anything. I like to joke that I m unemployable, because there are a lot good things that go along with what we do right now, currently, full-time. So, it s a great market to be investing in right now. There are lots of opportunities, Stacy. Like you said, there are plenty of deals and very little competition. And even with what I m doing there s even less competition involved with what we re doing currently. Right. Well, let s talk about how you got into what you re doing now. You started with single families. Then you went through your education and all of that. So, then how did you transition from single families into the defaulted commercial properties? No problem. I was like a lot of investors doing a lot of different things, from wholesaling properties to doing the rehab thing. I was all across the board, very unfocused. I learned the note business from a couple of folks that teach buying and selling defaulted notes, Bob Leonetti and Jamie Kahla. I worked with them for a while. But actually I have to give a lot of credit to my current business partner. I met her about 18 months ago and she s like, Scott, you re all over the board. Why don t you focus on something and stick with it? What s going to be the best use of your time and make you the most amount of money? And just stick to it. And I was like, Notes. I had bought notes for the last couple of years and it was fun. It allowed for me to kind of, let me say, scratch all my itches, because was able to buy a note and buy REO s and flip notes and do all that stuff. 5

6 I went into doing that and doing nothing but that for basically the last two years. So, I spend a lot of time on the phone calling banks. It s been a lot of work, but it s been very, very rewarding and we re definitely set up to take advantage of where the market is going on both the commercial aspect with all these defaulted loans and then also currently with a lot of the residential foreclosures that have been going on. Banks are definitely looking to dump stuff. And there aren t many people that are calling trying to get the defaulted notes. One of the funniest things that we do is when we call a bank and they re like, Hey, we didn t even know you guys still existed. So, it s kind of a virtually untapped market out there. Wow. Cool. Well, why don t you show me real quick, you said that notes kind of did it for you? You had been investing in notes a little bit and I think you said they scratched all your itches. What specifically are you talking about there? What s so great about investing in notes? Well, you look at the different types of deals that are out there right now. You have short sales, which are predominant here. Everywhere you go there are plenty of short sales and foreclosures and REO s. There are a lot of people that like to just flip deals, wholesale deals. It s hard to get traditional financing for deals. So, when you buy notes you re able to avoid a lot of the pitfalls that investors are dealing with, like on the short sale side. You know, there are seasoning issues. And obviously a big pitfall with short sales is just the amount of time that they take. Along with trying, if you re going to, as an investor, buy a short sale and then turn around and try to flip it you ve got to wait sometimes 90 days or the banks don t like to always let you flip it. 6

7 And specifically in states there are specific laws against flipping short sales. So, that s one of the great things about when you buy notes. You come in as technically a bank and it s a banking transaction. So, you re buying a note directly from a bank. You buy it at a discount. You can turn around and either, one if it s wholesale or flip the note to another investor and walk away with profit. You can either, two, approve a short sale if you want to if it s listed for sale. Or talk to the homeowner, have them go ahead and list the property so you make pretty decent profit then and get the short sale approved in a much faster timeframe. If you want to mess around with REO s you can go ahead and do like a friendly foreclosure or foreclose on a property and sell it as your own REO without having to wait 90 days or a year to sell it to make the increased profit like you do in other areas of the country. So, that s the great thing about notes. You re able to do all those different things without all the headaches. It s a much faster process. If you re a deal junky kind of like I am it allow for you to kind of do all those things but still be very focused, which I think is where a lot of investors struggle with it. There s always this new and latest product or tape series or thing coming out. Education is a great thing, but I ll give you an example. A doctor goes to school to be focused to be a doctor. He doesn t go to medical school to learn how to change the oil or build a house or do his taxes. He goes to learn how to be a doctor. 7

8 It s the same thing with investing, that you ve got to really focus on one type of deal and work it. I wasn t very good at that except for the last two years. I m still very unfocused on things, but notes are basically all I spend my time working on right now. All right. Cool. Well tell me, because I know quite a bit about the note game, but I don t do a lot of it myself. I probably need to do more of it. And you re right, it s so easy to get tunnel vision and get locked into one way of doing things and forget there are other ways of doing things. So, I actually probably need to start doing more note investing. But tell me what a typical note deal is like for you. How does it go down? What s the first thing you have to do? Well usually, there are kind of two different ways. One way is a lot of times we ve got a list of investors that we work with that will send us a list of short sales in their market. They ll send us a list of short sales that have the bank, the borrowers name, the address and roughly what the value of the property is or what s owed on it. Obviously with a short sale it s probably default. So, the bank is much more motivated to sell even at a discount. So, we ll take this list of short sales we get in and start calling the banks who are the lenders now. Now, we don t waste our time with Bank of America or Citibank or Chase or GMAC. Those are the big boys. They want you to buy huge pools from them at $400 million to $500 million. So, we ll call regional banks or smaller banks. So, we get on the phone, call the banks and work our way through getting into these inside departments. If you call and talk to loss mitigation 8

9 or customer service, nine times out of ten when you ask for the secondary marketing director or the capital assets department they re going to go, Who? What? So, it takes kind of being a bulldog and say, Can you transfer me to your corporate offices or let me speak to the head of lost mitigation. So, it can take a while to do it. But once you get into the right department you make an offer on buying this note from the secondary marketing manager. And the further in default that these properties are or the more months that the homeowners have not paid the bigger the discounts that the banks will take, because they want to get this stuff off their books. The secondary marketing department is a separate department than lost mitigation. A lot of times the two do not talk back and forth. So, let me give you an example. Let s say you ve got a property that s got $100,000 note on it and that s about what it s worth right now here in Austin. Doing a short sale you might get it at roughly around 80 to 85 on the dollar. The bank will take a discount, especially if it s listed for retail sale. Once you do the short sale process, somebody gets into it at 85, they ve got a little bit of equity in it, great. If you try to flip it, it can be a very skinny deal. But with us, if it s gone further than 90 days or closer to six months we can usually get that residential mortgage purchase at 50 on what s owed. 9

10 So, if we re buying the note at 50 we become the bank. We can turn around and call the listing agent and say, Okay we are now your new bank. Tell us what your highest offer is. We ll say it s 85. Okay great. We approve your short sale today. Can you close in 30 days? Fantastic. So, then we re walking away with a $35,000 profit at that point. That s gross. And of course, we pay our realtors commissions and all that good stuff. But we don t have to worry about buying and trying to reflip it or repost it. We have private investors. We use all private money. You have to do that with notes, have cash or have private investors that ll back you. But even if you ve got to pay 50% of your profit to a joint venture money partner you re still coming away smelling like roses. Right. Dude, that is fantastic. But I know the first question in everyone s mind is, Okay. So, you re dealing with a bank who has a short sale offer and the bank has this property, they ve got a short sale offer for $85,000, let s say, on this $100,000 property. And they turned it down, but they, in the background, agreed to sell you the note for $50,000. Now why on God s green earth would they turn down an $85,000 offer but sell it to you for $50,000? Because they re two separate completely separate departments that have separate jobs inside of banks. 10

11 Your lost mitigation side, your short sale side, they re trying to collect, collect, collect. Well, Hey, we ll take your payments to make it up. That s what their job is to do. The secondary marketing department is looking at what bad loans they have. And for every loan they have that s bad, that s not performing on their books, they re unable to lend that amount times eight. So, if they ve got a $100,000 loan that s going bad on them that means it affects their bottom line by not being able to lend out $800,000 in loans. So, they re trying to get rid of the stuff as fast as possible, especially when you look at the end of the year, the last two quarters of the year when they ve got to start reporting these for earnings and things like that. The more bad loans they have the worse their stock prices, the worse they re able to lend. That s why you had all these banks two years ago going out of business left and right, because they had all these bad loans that they couldn t lend on anymore. And then they had no more money to lend on. So, they went out of business. It was their only option at that point. So, that s why banks will sell loans. Not everybody sells their loans. Like I said, the big banks won t sell them unless it s in large pools. They re dealing with, their customers are like China. Right. And so some banks aren t even set up via their charter to sell their 11

12 defaulted mortgages. But a lot of them will. You just have to get on the phone to call the bulldog on the phone and follow back up with them on a regular basis. A lot of banks will get phone calls from investors once, maybe twice and then they never hear back from the investors. The investors get frustrated, because they ve been told no twice. Well, I ll give you guys an example to kind of live by. We spent two weeks calling one specific bank. It basically took us roughly around 70 phone calls of calling, being transferred, being hung up on. It took us a while to get into it, but the first deal we closed with that bank we made $35,000 on that one note purchase. So, you figure we made about $500 for every hang up or No that we got. Wow, that s a fantastic way of looking at it. Another big lesson there is why you re on the interview today. You re a winner. Just like that first bit of adversity you had when you were investing in real estate when you lost your job. You didn t quit. You came right back. And it sounds like with this, as with all real estate investing or anything you do in life, you can t give up after the first No. You ve just got to keep going. You ve got to be resilient. That s completely true. It s just a matter of following up. And to look at it like, Okay. So, I made 70 phone calls. But I ultimately wound up making $35,000. So, that s $500 for every phone call that I made. Who would make 70 phone calls to make $35,000? If you didn t just 12

13 say Yes to that question then Scott and I are probably wasting your time right now and you should just turn the interview off, because the rest of what we re going to say is going to go right over your head. Man, that s fantastic. So, I m guessing, man, I ve just got so many questions I don t know where to start, because this is so fascinating and some of this stuff is stuff I hadn t even thought about. The fact that there are two separate divisions in the bank and it s almost like the right hand doesn t know what the left hand is doing. And you re kind of like, man, it s sweet. You re going in the back door, all the rest of the investors are going in the front door through the lost mitigation department. You re going through the back door that other investors don t even freaking know exists. And you re dealing with a completely separate part of the bank that has a completely separate job to do from the lost mitigation department. You re sneaking in there, you re getting the deal done and then going back over to the lost mitigation side and going, What s the highest offer we got? Take it. Let s do it. That s freaking amazing. That s fantastic, man. I love that. So, my question is basically you re not restricted by geography with this type of investing. Will you invest anywhere or are you just investing in Texas? You mentioned you start with a short sale list. What short sales list do you start with? Are you pulling short sales lists from just Texas or Austin or wherever, or are you looking at short sales in California, New York, Florida? All over the United States. We ve closed notes from San Diego to Niagara Falls, from Florida, Charlotte, Minneapolis. I mean we ve 13

14 bought stuff in Dallas. Okay. One of the great things, when you get into the right department for the bank is most of the time they ll send you a list of stuff that they want to get rid of. And that s what s called, they ll send you a tape. It s basically an Excel spreadsheet with a list of notes that they want to get rid of. And what we do is when we get a list of these in we ll just identify the hot areas where we ve bought notes before, where we re familiar with, where we have other investors that are looking for. Then we ll basically identify those and start evaluating those deals. I mean, we don t go out and drive the properties. We ll either jump on Google and do a little bit of work or we ll call real estate agents in that market to have them pull comps for us or see if it s listed for sale or for short sale and do all our due diligence from basically sitting in our office in Anderson Mill. So, we don t go out and knock on doors or anything like that. It s basically calling banks and knocking on their virtual doors to show us a list of things that are available. Yeah, I would imagine once you re in with a bank, once you close a deal, now they know you re a player and you can actually close. Now, it may have taken you 70 phone calls to initially develop the relationship, but now on the 71st phone call or whatever, you get the right person, they finally say, Yes. You close the deal. You do what you say you re going to do. And now you re they re go-to guy. They re like, Hey, let s do some more deals. 14

15 Yeah, exactly. Banks will call us with stuff now and say, Hey, we ve got this bad loan. Are you interested in buying it? What would you offer us? It happens quite often now. Fantastic. Well, let me ask you this. During your due diligence do you ever speak to, so, if you ve got a loan you re thinking about buying, let s take that example we used a little while ago. You ve got $100,000 note, you get it for 50 on the dollar. You pay $50,000 for it. And we ll get into where you got the money and all that in just a minute. Then immediately you say you ll buy it for $50,000, you call the lost mitigation department, actually you call the listing agent, What s the highest offer we ve got so far? They say, $85,000. Boom, take it. It was sold. In your due diligence do you ever call the listing agent first to find out, do you know what that highest offer is before you buy the note? I m assuming you re going to say Yes. I will say it depends. Okay. If the property s listed and we can pull the values, and depending on the listing information we know a lot of times, if the realtor knows exactly what they re doing, especially in short sales. If we can see that a property s worth $100,000 and it s listed for $100,000 it s not really, they probably don t have any offers on it, because 15

16 it s listed at full price. It s not really a deal. But if the property s listed at $85,000 or $75,000 we know that the agent s smart enough to realize that if they put it in at a low ball offer they ll get multiple offers and get closer to retail. So, we ll look at that information and then either call the listing agent or pull values to know what comps are in the area and go from there. The great thing about what we do is if we see listing for short sale we know the homeowner s motivated to get out of the property. The listing agent s collecting offers. We know what the properties worth. We know what our spreads can be. We know what the bank s going to roughly sell it to us at. So, we don t really have to get the realtor involved all the time or even talk to the homeowners and deal with their drama, because we already know what our exit strategy is. We already know what the numbers and potential profit could be if we buy the note and sell it quickly. Okay. All right. Very cool. Well, we talked a little bit about due diligence. And just like with doing traditional real estate deals where you re buying the actual house itself, not just the note, obviously there s a lot of due diligence. And there s a lot of due diligence on your part, as well. So, let s talk a little bit about your due diligence and what it is that you re looking for and how do you do your due diligence? If you d kind of just walk us through that for a little bit. 16

17 Well, the number one rule, if you re buying notes or you want to get into buying notes, the number one rule to keep in mind is you never want to buy a note on a property you don t ever want to end up owning. You know what I mean? Yeah. Basically you re going to want to make sure that some of the due diligence, you want to see, Okay, is the property still standing? What s the area like? You re going to evaluate a note very similar to a real estate deal, a traditional real estate deal, because you re still going to evaluate the underlying asset. So, what s the home worth? What s owed on the note? What s your investment to value? What that is, is basically, what are you going to buy the note at and how does that compare to the overall value? So, on the example I gave you earlier. Since we were buying the note at $50,000 that was a 50% investment to value. A lot of investors are used to 70% is the MAO, Maximum Allowable Operative, minus repairs and that stuff. It s kind of similar to that with notes. If you, especially if you re planning on buying the note and then foreclosing and then either flipping the asset or flipping the property or retaining the property as your own investment portfolio. We just like to know values, what we can get it at, obviously if a properties standing. There have been notes that we ve looked at before that the actual property owner went out and bulldozed the property. And the bank didn t even know about it. 17

18 Holy crap. Yeah, that would affect what you want to buy at, as well. Yeah, because now you re just buying a lot. The value just changed dramatically. Yeah. The good thing is banks will provide you like a whole list of items in a loan file. When you re dealing with commercial notes though, you have to keep in mind that the bank doesn t have rent rolls. It doesn t have occupancy rates. So, you have to do a little bit more due diligence on the commercial side to make sure that it s a good deal for you. So, that means calling other realtors and using website like rentometer to determine rent rates in the area and calling other, CCIM realtors there to figure out what the occupancy rates are and stuff like that. So, the commercial side there s more due diligence anyway. But I think actually commercial notes are easier to deal with, because banks are much more willing to let individual commercial loans go or be sold versus residential notes, where they want usually to sell a large pool of notes. So you have to kind of put commercial offering sometimes and try to work the numbers to figure out exactly the way it s going to be. You can buy the note to make it a screaming deal for an investor if you re going to flip it. All right. Very cool. You mentioned a cool resource, www. rentometer.com. What over resources do you use, any other websites and resources that you use during your due diligence period. 18

19 Yeah, is a great one. We use com, which as an investor it s a pure real estate website, which gives you listings of realtors and appraisers and attorneys in all areas of the country. So, if we re buying a note in Portland, Oregon and we don t have a contact up there we re turn on Active Rain and find a realtor or an appraiser up in the neck of the woods that can take five minutes to pull comps for us. We ll also use that website as we come across deals in different parts of the country. There s a great little referral tab that you can type in, Hey, I ve got a referral for a note or a listing in Timbuktu that ll go to all those realtors in that state or that county. And then they ll either respond that they re interested or they ve got a buyer. So, those are two websites we use a lot. www. Trulia.com are two other websites that we use a lot to type in an address to find out to see if it s actually listed for sale. we use that to raise money and advertise notes for sale as well. And I think one of the best sites that s free, and all of these websites I m talking about are free is com. And we ll go on there and actually advertise a note for sale or an apartment note for sale. And then once we upload it on there, it ll actually send it out to upwards of 285 plus different websites across the board, from Facebook to Craigslist to just a huge number of them. And so, we get a lot of our buyers and other investors coming to 19

20 us from these different websites that it s been advertised for free on. Yeah, is a great resource, great. Well, thanks for sharing some of those resources with us. So, let s switch gears just for a second and let s talk about where you get the money to do these deals. So, let s go back to your example of the $100,000 property, obviously the note s less than that. And you pick up the note for $50,000. I m assuming the bank says, Yeah, we ll sell it to you for $50,000. How soon do they want their $50,000? And where do you get the $50,000 to give it to them? Well, there are kind of two ways to do things. Like I said before, when you re buying notes you ve got to have cash. So, one of the big things that we do and I recommend all investors do is blast out what type of deal. If it s a great deal, great deals will find money. A lot of investors get caught up in the fact, Well, I don t have the money for this deal. So, I m not going to do it. I give up on it. If you ve got a great deal, a screaming deal at 50 on the dollar you re going to find money for it. You ve just got to be not greedy. So, one of the things we do is when we get a deal in like that we ll send an blast out to our buyers list or our contacts letting them know, Hey, this is the deal. We re looking for a joint venture partner on. If it s a list I ve sent out that I know people I ll say, I m looking for private investors to help me fund this deal. And then that s it. I just basically share this deal. We share what we re buying the property at. We share values, how soon we think we can close. A lot of the time with notes though 20

21 we ll actually find an end buyer who will fund the whole transaction for us. So, let s say we buy on the note at 50 on this deal and we got a note investor to buy it from us at 70. Well, 70 is still a good deal for our investor. They ll basically wire $70,000 to our escrow account, which we ll turn around and basically wire $50,000 to the bank. We just walked away with $20,000 in profit. And all we ve done is basically, once we wire the money into the bank, the bank will then turn around and assign the mortgage to us. An assignment of mortgage or assignment dead of trust, it s one form that gives us ownership to the note. As soon as we get that we turn around and assign that over to the end investor and everybody walks away happy. So, basically our end buyer ends up funding our actual transaction at the same time. That happens most of the time, just because we re wholesaling just about everything we get. We don t want to hold onto anything for the most part. So, we re flipping notes simultaneously. I mean, we ve flipped apartment complexes in less than 24 hours. We have the buyer fund note transactions of residential properties where we then got a dead in lieu and then turned around and sold it as an REO where we split the profit 50/50 with the person that funded the initial transaction for us. But yeah, we re just using private money and investors and making sure it s win/win across the board. That s fantastic. Now my head s spinning with all kinds of ideas. I m sitting here thinking, You can do this stuff in your IRA too, 21

22 couldn t you? Completely. I mean, we have worked with investors who ve got self directed IRA money. To give you an example you don t have to have $100,000 sitting around in your IRA. We bought a note on a little duplex in Phoenix. It was $130,000 mortgage. The bank had not received a payment in a year. Wow. We paid just $3,750 for this note, three thousand, seven hundred and fifty dollars. Okay? On a $139,000 note? Yeah. That s like 3%. That s like 3 on the freaking dollar, dude. Yeah, it was like 2.7 on the dollar. But we had an investor who they had like $8,000 sitting in a self directed IRA. And we re like, Okay, the property as it sits is worth like $55,000, because it needs some work. I need about $25,000 in work to be worth roughly about $110,000. But as it sat it was only worth about $55,000. So, we used the $3,750 from the self directed IRA to fund the purchase of the note. We got a dead in lieu on the property, let them walk without a deficiency judgment or a lean or anything. And we sold it as our own REO, because we did a friendly foreclosure. We sold it in 30 days for $27,000 and we split the profit 50/50. 22

23 So, if you figure $27,000 minus the $3,750, what is that, about $23,000 in profit that we split 50/50. So, they made a 400% return on their investment roughly in 60 days. Right, 400% tax free return on their investment, assuming it was a Roth IRA. It was a Roth IRA. So, completely tax free. Wow. And our return on investment was an infinite, because we had nothing invested in it. Yeah, absolutely. That is fantastic, man. That is just absolutely fantastic. Now, how long does it take to find a deal like that? I know those, a deal where there s $139,000 mortgage and you pick it up for $3,750, that probably doesn t happen all that often, I m guessing. Well, it depends on the bank, depends on the lender. This one deal was a part of a list of 100 notes that the bank sent us. We bought a couple more on the list. We were able to cherry pick the list. It just varies, it s making phone calls. This was a sub-prime lender that hadn t gotten payments in a while and they were just motivated to move. It did take a little while. It took roughly about 60 to 90 days actual purchase of the note and close on the initial front end purchase. And then, of course, 45 days afterwards to foreclose and then we 23

24 started doing the REO. That s just great stuff. So, if I m hearing you right, the key to the money situation is you re out there beating the bushes. I m guessing you re constantly looking for new private investors. Is that right? That s correct, yes. And what are the best sources that you ve found for private investors? Opening your mouth and talking to everybody you know. There you go. I like it. Most investors are scared that they re going to come across acting like they re begging for money from people that they know, contacts that they know. When it comes down to that you have to have kind of a mind shift and think that you re offering somebody a great deal. And use the analogy if you re about to do a deal and if you didn t talk to your best friend who had the money and your best friend found out later on that you closed this phenomenal deal and didn t get them involved, how upset would they be? They d be pretty mad that you didn t get them involved. Oh yeah. 24

25 And so, you just have to think that hey when you re talking to somebody, talk to everybody you know. You re offering them an opportunity to make a great rate of return in a win/win situation, not that you re begging for money. That s what it comes down to. People that talk to more people find more money, they get more deals done, versus those that are scared to open their mouth. Yeah, I couldn t agree more. And what happens, and I know you know this, you find somebody that you do a deal with, finding private investors is 100% about the relationship. It s about trust. It s about doing what you say you re going to do. So, you ve got to think long-term with these private investors. And I know you do, Scott. I m talking to the listeners right now. And what happens is you do a deal with one of them and you do exactly what you say you re going to do. You get them their money back exactly when you said you were going to get it back. You get them either their interest or their share of the profit, whatever you negotiated with them before you borrowed their money in the first place. And you do that, and just like the bank now knows that you are their go to guy, because you did what you said you were going to do for the bank. Now the private investor knows that you are a man of your word or a woman of your word as well. And now they trust you. And guess what they re going to do, the private investor? They re going to tell everyone that they freaking now about how great you are. They just made a killing on this deal or they re getting this bad ass interest rate from their buddy Scott. 25

26 And now the dude they play golf with or tennis with or they re at the country club with or they re at the dinner with, whatever, they re bragging about this deal that they re doing with Scott. And now their friends want deals. And now you ve got money coming at you from everywhere, right? Correct. And it s like magic, it really is. But the trick is you have to do what you said in the beginning. You have to be willing to open your mouth and let people know that you re doing deals, which means you actually have to get up off your butt and start doing deals. And then the second part is you ve got to talk to people, let them know that you re doing this and you ve got to do exactly what you say you re going to do. Don t burn anybody, because if you start burning bridges word spreads just equally as fast that way. So, you ve got to do what you say you re going to do. That s awesome stuff, Scott. So, let s talk about one of the best deals you ve ever done. Give us an example of just a smoking deal either recently or in the past that you did that you just hit a freaking grand slam home run on. There s a commercial apartment complex. We got a list in from the bank of every commercial note that they had for sale. We found a complex in San Diego. It was a 7 unit complex. It was worth right at $695,000, $690,000. The bank was owed, with back payments and interest it all totaled about $575,000 on it. The deal took roughly about 60 days to 26

27 negotiate with the bank, because they didn t accept our offer initially. But we got the bank to accept $375,000 for it. Wow. Yeah. While we were basically working the negotiations with the bank we were marketing the property above and beyond that at the same time. And an investor came in with private money and was interested in the deal. They lived in San Diego. This property was 100% leased in a 97% occupancy area. They were willing to pay $415,000 for it. So, we got the bank to agree at $375,000. Our buyer was at $415,000. We shared the contracts. We walked into the office one day, pulled up the escrow account and there was $415,000 sitting in our account. We did a little happy dance. We called up our escrow agent. They wired the $375,000 to the bank. They were happy. Everything recorded. They re in the process of foreclosing on the property, actually already have. And they re flipping the property there on REO for like $650,000. So, they paid $415,000 and they re going to sell it for $650,000 and make $235,000 on their investment of $415,000, which is a great deal for them. We made $35,000 in basically roughly a day with nothing invested besides time and a little bit of due diligence. Right. 27

28 That s what we love about doing commercial notes like that. That s fantastic. And you said you re all sharing all documents, there s full disclosure across the board. And the banks don t give you a hard time on this side of the fence that you re playing on like they do over on the other side of the fence that most of us investors are playing on, where they re going the traditional short sale route. And then you run into the seasoning issues and all of that crap. You don t run into any of that stuff, the way you re doing it. No, because we re basically a bank, providing a banking transaction at that point. Right. That s fantastic. It s not a real estate transaction, it s a banking transaction. Mm-hmm. That s fantastic. Well, let s talk about this real quick. I m going to back track for just a second. I thought of another question regarding your private investors. You ve mentioned that you split some of your deals with your private investors, you split the profit with them 50/50. I m assuming you also probably have some private investors that you just pay a flat interest rate to, as well. How do you determine which route you re going to go with your private investors? And if you do go the interest rate route, what kind of interest rate are you paying your private investors? 28

29 Well, it s all about talking about what they re comfortable with. We never quote a rate on the front end, because for some people if we quoted 12% that d be outrageously, they d be scared. Oh, it must be something risky. We like to talk with people and find out what their money is sitting in and what they re currently invested in and how it s performing for them. So, if we re talking to somebody who s got money sitting in a CD, you know, it s making 1%, they might be overjoyed to me making 4% to 6%. If we re dealing with another real estate investor who s used to making 20% to 25%, 12% would not be very exciting to them. So, it s all about kind of interviewing your investors to find out what they re making, what they ve invested in, what s their timeframe. The last thing you ever want to do is take somebody s last $50,000 and invest it in something that s going to take a lot, because those people will drive you crazy, because they re concerned. They re always logging in to see what the account s doing or Oh, my goodness. The values in the neighborhood went down for this week. So, you have to keep that in mind when you re working with people. But that s just interviewing people and like I said, finding out what s invested in. If it s in a CD they re probably interested in letting it sit for a year and they ll take a lower rate of return. 29

30 But if it s in a mutual fund, you know, it s a trading account for them. They like to see stuff moving around faster and making a higher rate of return. So, you ve just got to talk with people and find a comfort level. Never be the first person to quote a rate. That s a law basically anyway in real estate. Never quote a price, because the first person that quotes a price, you re going to end up losing. Right, absolutely. I agree. And I ve got some private investors that I pay as little as 5% to, like the CD investors that have the CD mentality. That s more than they re going to get in a CD. And then I ve got some that I pay up to 12% for. You ve just got to figure out where your investor lies on that continuum of risk. And that s your job to assess how much risk they re willing to take and then give them a good deal. Exactly. We re working on a deal right now. It s an apartment complex in Los Angeles, a 16 unit apartment complex. It s worth $1.4 million. The bank is owed $1.25 million. We re basically going to be able to pick the note up for somewhere between $300,000 to $400,000. Wow. So, there s a lot of profit there. Now, we re not going to bring the $300,000 to $400,000 to the table. We ve got a private investor that s going to fund it for us. And then basically we re going to split the deal 50/50 from that point on, because we re going to do the work, he s going to provide the investing. And that name sound 30

31 steep to give up half the deal. But hey, half a deal Half a pie is better than no pie at all. Exactly. And if we can close quickly and perform, that s all we care about. We re still going to walk away with half, versus not getting anything. And the bank s going to send us more deals for getting this stuff closed. So, we may be giving up a half million in profit, but we re still going to make a half million. Well, let me ask you this. On a deal like that, that s that smoking, was worth $1.4 million at one point in time and the bank loans $1.2 million on it, you re going to pick it up in the high $300,000 s. I mean, assuming it s worth a million now, roughly saying. We don t know that it s actually worth that. But let s say it s worth a million right now. So, there s $600,000 worth of equity or something like that right now. But at some point in time that property s going to come back. It s going to be worth $1.5 million, maybe $2 million five years from now. Is it ever part of your plan to hold a property like that long-term and go for bigger gain? No, you know, some people do. We don t, because with the market being like it is and commercial foreclosures being a tough market and who knows what s going to happen and most banks pretending and extending. You know, they don t want to deal with it. Well, we re not really holding onto anything, because if we take 31

32 that $400,000 and tie it up for a year or two we probably could have closed 12 to 15 more deals with that $400,000 and come out making more money than trying to hold it for a year or two. That s a good point. And that s called opportunity cost as in missed opportunity. Yeah. You re tying up that money and you re missing other opportunities. And that s one of the reasons, listeners, the reason I say over and over, There is no such thing as competition in real estate, is because everybody in the real estate field only has access to so much cash. Nobody can buy it all, nobody. Not Donald Trump, not Warren Buffett, nobody can buy it all. There s so much out there to buy. And so, when an investor gets all of his money tied up, and I talk to investors, investors call me all the time. I ll say, Hey, I ve got my money tied up. I can t buy anything else, but I ve got this lead on this deal. Do you have some money? Yeah, I ve got some money. And then obviously I pay them for bringing me a deal. But we all run out of money at some point in time. And that s why deals continually fall to other investors. Nobody can take them all. And I m glad you brought that up, because everybody gets tapped out and runs out of money at times. And that s why you don t want to have your $400,000 tied up for too long, because that keeps you from doing other deals. 32

33 Exactly. So, I can t believe we ve been talking for like 45 minutes already. It s just gone by so fast. But I want to ask you this question before we start to close. And I want to give you an opportunity to give everybody your contact information if they want to get in touch with you. What were some of the note courses that were the most powerful to you or had the biggest impact on you that you thought that they were the best when you were first getting started, or even since you ve been in the game. I m sure you re still studying and learning even now. Yeah. I mean, golly. I was lucky enough to work with Bob Leonetti and Jamie Kahla for a couple of years and be in their office and learn the note business from them, that they teach and buy and sell notes on a regular basis. So, they ve had a couple different courses along the past few years that they teach. I do a lot of reading myself. I keep up with the markets. I man that s roughly it. When you get to sit in somebody s office for five years, doing it on a daily basis, there s really nothing better that you can learn. You re actually in the fire and not just reading about it. I would say that another guy that s pretty good, has some good stuff is Vean Ingle as well. Say that name again. That s a name I m not familiar with. Vean Ingle. 33

34 V-e-a-n? Yeah. Okay. I will say this. In the last two years we ve created our own course just from our own trial and errors of what scripts work, what scripts don t work. All right. Fantastic. When to call, when not to call. What do you offer? All that good stuff. Well, tell us about that. Where can we get it? What s the website? Well, our website is It s pretty simple, We are all about doing deals. That s basically what we do. We re not really in the information market. There are 27,000 banks out there and lending institutions and all that stuff. And we possibly can t reach them all. So, we actually teach a course. It s a 2-day course that kind of we open up our books and actually share what we do on a daily basis here in the office with people that are interested in learning the note business. And those are the people that we kind of joint venture with on deals. 34

35 Okay. There s an apartment complex in LA. We didn t find it. It was somebody that took our course that found it and we re joint venturing with them on it. We get people that go to our class and then basically we ll send us a list of notes that we buy from and pay them a referral fee or JV on them if they want to take it down. So, that s kind of our course. It s a 2-day course. We host it in Austin and Dallas, LA, it s like $497. It s not a big deal. We re not getting rich on this stuff. It s just more our way to help us build our, I guess you d say little minions of educating note buyers across the country. They re out there, they re birddogs for you. They re out there bird dogging notes for you. That s fantastic. Yeah. I mean, that s the great thing is we ve seen people, we ve got people that have been in the real estate business for years some of them just starting off and they re having success across the board with calling banks and following our scripts and doing the stuff that we teach that we do in on a regular basis here to track down notes that we re buying and flipping now. Fantastic. That s awesome. So again, in case you are driving and you missed it, that s I m on it right now checking it out right now. It looks great. Anything else? Any other ways that you would like to give people access to you? You don t have to. I don t want to put you on the spot. But if that s the best way for them to get in touch with you then we ll just leave it at that, but if you want to give out an address or anything like that. 35

36 Yeah. You could reach myself or my business partner at weclosenotes.com. Okay. Cool. When we get people with questions and stuff like that, I think the number one question that I ll answer right now. No, Bank of America does not sell notes. But I mean you can go on there. People have questions all the time about notes and we ll spend a good 30 minutes with somebody going through some things and working them on things. Very cool. That s kind of it. We re all about getting deals done and getting more notes closed. Right now we re very lucky, the next 24 to 36 months is going to be a great time to be investing. If you re not doing a thing you need to get involved. And we ve just found that notes have been the easiest way to kind of like you say, go in the back door and avoid the crowds. Yeah, absolutely. And that s fantastic man. This has been a great interview, Scott. I would really, really appreciate it. Do you have any last words of advice that you might give somebody who maybe hasn t pulled the trigger and is thinking about getting started? Yeah, I ll tell you this. Get out and do something. I think the biggest thing is maybe find yourself an accountability partner. I mean, I ve 36

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