Vietnamese American Oral History Project, UC Irvine

Transcription

1 VAOHP Vietnamese American Oral History Project, UC Irvine Narrator: TUAN ANH LE Interviewer: Kathy Le Date: May 13, 2012 Location: Duarte, California Sub-collection: Linda Vo Class Oral Histories, 2012 Length of Interview: 01:40:02 KL: Okay. What is your name? TAL: My name s Tuan. Last name Le, Le. Middle name Anh. KL: And your date of birth? TAL: Born in 1957 December 2nd 1957, yeah. KL: Where were you born? TAL: I born in Vietnam, Khánh Hòa, Vietnam. A small time in the middle of Vietnam, now they call Nha Trang. KL: What were your parents names? TAL: My parents name is Le The Truong. And my mom s Phuong Thi Xuan. My dad is military, he work for air force, and my mom is pass away a while ago. I don t remember much about her because she passed away when I was just 6 years old. So I lived with my dad and step mom. KL: Where did you grow up?

2 VAOHP TAL: I grow up in first when I young I grow up in Khánh Hòa, small town in the middle of the Vietnam, and when my dad transfer to another military base in Saigon, Tân Sơn Nhất, so we move to Saigon. So I live in Saigon until I grow up until I, you know draft into the army. KL: Were those the only two cities you lived in in Vietnam? TAL: No I lived in a lot of when I grow up, when I draft in the army, and when I m in the army, and I go a lot of cities in Vietnam. Like Bình Hòa, Nha Trang, Huế, Cam Ranh Base, and Cấn Thơ. That s before 1975, and after 1975, I travel a lot of places. I go a lot of place like Kênh Giang, Rạch Giá, Bình Long, Phan Thiết, Đà Nẵng, Tây Ninh, and back to Saigon. KL: Can you tell me about some of your childhood memories? What you did when you were growing up, or anything you remember from your childhood? TAL: I don t remember in the childhood because I go to high school. I don t remember in the middle of middle school, but I go to high school. The school is Le Bao Tinh. Then I go to another one they call Nguyễn Trãi. And I finish high school and that time the war getting bigger and bigger in Vietnam, and after I finish high school I go to college in Vietnam. Vietnam is the school is different than America, and Vietnam you finish high school and then you can join in what you like to do. Like I like to do is law, so I join, so I go to law school, like if you like to go to Doctor, you just go to Doctor school, or you like Engineer, you go to engineer school. Not like in America, you have to go do over again with the gener- genera- what s that called? Generation regular education again in college in Vietnam we don t have to do that. When you finish the high school that means you done with the education, general education, and then after that you go to, you know the school of whatever you like. So I go to first year in law school in Saigon and at that time I had draft into the war, about 17 years old. 16 and half actually, 16 and half I have to join to the military because if I don t join in, okay, when 17 they draft you in, you

3 VAOHP have no choice, but when I 16 and half, 17, almost 17, I join in so I have a choice so I pick the air force. I join into the air force. I take the test, I pass, and then I join the air force, but if they draft you in you have to go to the general, like the army, you don t have, you don t have a choice to pick it out. And then after the army, and then you can pick out the air force navy or army, you know. KL: Before that did you have any other jobs? TAL: Yeah, before that when I go to high school, I have, I work for the shipyard because I like to, in Vietnam, most of the place you have people go out because we have the ocean almost like along the coast. Vietnam is the country along the coast, so you know; there are a lot of shipyards in Vietnam, so that time I work when I was young I work for shipyard. I m the welder, and the drawer of the ship, you know, like you draw and cut the metal, how to build the ship in Vietnam. KL: So when you were doing that, did you guys gather together for events with your coworkers or with neighbors or just in the city did you have? TAL: Yeah, when I do that, before I join the army, and you know, we usually hang around. The same like in America, but over there you have weekends, we have weekends really relax, from like Friday night after work. And because you don t have school on the day time, and you work usually, usually you work seven or six days a week, you work the evening until midnight, and then you go home then go to school. But like on the weekend you don t have to work, and no school, so usually the Friday night and Saturday night is the good day, and me and friends go out together and have, go to the bar, go to music, or you know, go to drink and all the stuff like that. KL: What kind of music played at the bars during that time? TAL: Usually at that time, you know, the music is like rock and roll in America, that s the old time. And then some people like the Vietnamese music and some people like, you know,

4 VAOHP American music, but I like a lot of American music at that time because that time was rock and roll like and the soft music like from America. KL: Is that when you learned to play the Beach Boys songs? TAL: That time because I play the guitar because, you know, when you have free time in Vietnam, you got, you know, not much stuff to play so you have to play the guitar with the friends, and I learn to play a lot from Beach Boys, from America, and Santana at that time, you know, there is a lot of music from Santana at that time, so I learn how to play the guitar and sometime I play in a band at the weeknights at the nightclub so you got some paid extra at that time. So everything becomes money in Vietnam, you know, so that s how I become good at guitar, so I play at the bar, at the nightclub. KL: So when the war started did it affect how your relationship with your friends when you used to go out? TAL: Yeah, when, you know, the war had been a long, long time in Vietnam, but when you are 17 you have to get into the army, everybody had to join in the army at that time, and you know most of the friends, my friends go to different, I go to the air force and friend of mine go to, you know, the tanker, and some of them go to the, you know, gun ship, and you know everybody go around and we don t have a lot of the communication together, and once a while we, you know, we see each other at the Saigon because that s the place that everybody has their day off from the army. You know, and then you join together in Saigon and hang out together, go to night club, dancing, you know, that s all. KL: How about you and your dad, since you guys are both in the army, how often were you guys able to see each other?

5 VAOHP TAL: When I young, I go to school, I go to work regularly, I don t see dad much, and the time we join the army, and my dad station in Saigon, Tân Sơn Nhất, and I stationed in Bình Hòa, so actually we don t see each other much any, and then when I move to another station in Cần Thơ, so you know, actually I didn t see him until almost, you know, a year, and until the Vietnam lost, and I go my way, and he go his way. So actually nobody see each other after 20 years later, I see, you know, I fly back to the country to see my dad. KL: Where did you live during the war? Was there set cities you stayed in? Or was it always on the move? TAL: In the war I have, you know, you go with your station, so like today, like when I just, when I get in, I base in Tân Sơn Nhất with my dad for a couple months, and then after that they transfer me to Bình Hòa. I stay there for a while, couple months, and then they transfer me to another station in Cần Thơ, and so I stay in there for a while until, I believe I stay in Cần Thơ, in my last station, I stay there until the war end. KL: What was your main occupation during the war? What was your job for the most part? TAL: In the most part, in so I just in the war I the newbie for officer, the new office in the army, so I train for fly the helicopter, I waiting to go to the training in America, but at that time the war was so very strong and nobody go at that time and we have to fly whatever we have left and then we have to use gunship in the US1 helicopter. And that time, and that s why I base in Cần Thơ at that time for a while to support like the army, and usually most of the air force and you stay and you support at night time or whatever the daytime or nighttime when they call support from army. In the war, yeah in the war, right on the ground when they call, you have to fly out there and support them usually you shoot when you come up you clear the area so the army can come in, and then you drop the army in and you take off.

6 VAOHP KL: What do you remember most about the war time? TAL: I don t think any good for remember of the war time because I been, when we go back to the station we, you know, sometimes we fly at night, we drop the light on the land, we go to pick up the people got the injury when they fighting, we pick up the people with the injury in fighting and sometimes because the helicopter was very limited, sometime we have to carry a lot of people, the helicopter full of blood and every day we see people die, some friends of us, some friends of mine, you know, we are the same company, and sometime we go and never come back. And some other people, someone lucky, its okay, someone not, and when they took off, that s it, that s the last flight, and they don t coming back, and we have to carry a lot of body when they die, bring them back to the, you know, hospital. Some people, you know, lucky they still alive and we take them to the hospital and some people don t, or sometime we not make it there, so it s very hard. I don t think the, there s a lot of memories in that, but most of them is a sad story and you don t want to, you know, hear about it, but people don t in the war don t understand what is it at nighttime, and sometime you sleep, you can t sleep because of the bomb go off and the rockets drop. And we listen in the radio and they need, you know, support, we have to go. And sometimes we don t have enough helicopter to go up to support, so we have to order them from a different city, so because we, you know, it s only limited area we can support. And most every day like that, day go by and people injury, missing people, injury, people cry, people die, house burn, everything you can name it. KL: Did it feel like time was going by slower or faster because all of that was happening? TAL: Time kind of just like you know regular every day, you know, it s like regular every day and most the time we don t have the home, we just stay in the base, you know. Most of us we don t, we stay in the base, in the day time, you know, we just divide like we work, you stay in

7 VAOHP the station like ten hours or twelve hours, and we sleep whatever we do someone always have the people stay awake in case any people call in to support and you have to fly right away. And you know, if you have a family, it s okay, you can go home, if you don t have time to do it, not in duty, but I don t have any family, so I just stay in the station and then I just, you know, when the time off I just go out in the city, you know, around and coffee. Sometime, you know, I get a couple beers, and then go back to the station and do the job again, and the day go by like every days the same, nothing different. First couple, first month was kind of very hard for people in, you see a lot of sorrow stories, but after that, its war, you can t, you have to expect it. KL: When you guys were low on helicopters or when there were too many soldiers that were injured, did anyone you know, or were you, held as or captured by the enemy during the war? TAL: The end of war I have captured by enemy, so I have to, I was in the station, and they take over the station, so I was there, so actually they don t do anything with me, I just transfer whatever we had left, transfer to the new government, and then I do whatever they tell me to do, and then for a couple months and couple, like a year later, and they just let me go. You know, I m not a prisoner of the war anymore, and then, you know, when I go back to my hometown and then they put you in training camp again for, you know, training camp again to do the, you know, to teach you what s good, what s bad, why you re fighting at that time. But most of the time, we just, you know, laughing, that s all. KL: That s the re-education camp right? TAL: Yes that s the re-education camp, it s just a camp, but nothing to education in there so they put you in there so you go do a lot of stuff for yourself. They have people to teach you some of why we do that, and why, you know, they win or something like that, but most of the time that in

8 VAOHP my mind I just do whatever they say and then at nighttime I just go, try to get to sleep, because if you don t do that you will keep thinking and you will get stress real bad. KL: What happened to the people who didn t follow the orders? TAL: No, everybody followed the order, but a lot of people just try to be, you know, feel bad because they think, you know, most people like they are like a lieutenant or captain or higher, they think they feel bad so they get stressed and they get sick, and you know, when you get sick in the re-education camp, you don t have any medication. You don t have medication that s bad, and also the food is not enough for you, so you got, you know, the best way I always tell a lot of people there, get it out of your ear. Just shake your head and just, you know, shake your head and whatever they say just you are that s it. Then night time try to get into sleep, because the bed is not comfortable, it s not a mattress, no mattress, so you have to sleep good, and next day you go to work whatever they tell you. The day just goes by until I get out of camp; you know, run away from the country and go to America. KL: What kind of work did they have you do? TAL: Most the time you have to, when they first beginning, when I got captured by the communist, I have to teach them what I do before, and how the helicopter fly, how to shoot the gun, how you refuel the fuel, and how you fix it when they have a problem, and then after they know everything for after a year, now in a year they know everything about, so they just say I m a good people, after they re-education me and release me to the hometown, and I go home, go to the hometown and they put me in the education camp again, and they just ask you to do like the farming stuff, so a couple years again and you just do whatever they say, but I don t know. Let s see, the thing they tell you to do is good or bad, but you just do it, and do the farming for a couple years, and until everything kind of slow down, and the communist feel better and they

9 VAOHP learn more stuff, and they let us go home. And we run away from the country and we go to America. KL: During the time you were in the reeducation camp or before or after, did you or any of your family members get injured or have/form any disabilities? TAL: No, when I was in the refugee camp, because that s a war time. Injury or disability does not count, no matter what you do, you have to try to work, even if you sick or cannot walk, you still have to walk. And you cannot say, oh I m so sick today, and you can t do anything, you know, that s the war time. After the war end, a lot of things can be happen because there was no food, they have no clothes, you use whatever the clothes you can find, you know, it was very bad time so you don t, they re just people surviving. You cannot say oh I m sick, I cannot work today, there s not the word called sickness at that time or disability at that time, you just do it, you work, you survive, if your body cannot handle it, you get sick more and you die at the war time and in Vietnam. KL: What were the last days of the war like? TAL: That s a very crazy day and I don t know how people feel, but that time, you know, I got captured in the station so, you know, I kind of feel weird, you think you re already maybe kill you or something like that, but you know, I think everybody mind s like that, and then after that, you know couple days, you see they don t kill us at that time you know, that s normal like every day, but the day the war end, it was a crazy day. You cannot believe it. The whole country collapse and people just dropped the gun, no government, no everything, no police, only the other side, the communist side, with the rifle and with the tank all over the city. And after that day, you know, after the day the war ends, everything seem like dark for; I guess for about almost a year, the place was dark because there was nobody fix anything, there was nobody.

10 VAOHP Actually the communist had to do a lot of work because some people take in charge a lot of stations, like electric, water, and communications. Some people already go away and nobody take care of it, and the country kind of nothing. No gas, no food, no market for a while, and after that everything become to normal. KL: So what happened to the family, or your friends and family when there was no food? Did you guys live on rations? TAL: No, you have to, you know, you have to survive, you go to like the countryside and try to buy some food there or you try to, you know, because most the farmers, some of them go away, and the house is empty, so the farm is empty, so you can get some rice and some, you know, some potato, sweet potato, and some the crop left over and you use it until the communist take everything, and then you have to work for communist to make some money. And then after that everything goes back to normal, not the regular normal like before, but like normal people sell some stuff, and people have food for sale, but the price was totally different, some of them was very high and some of them were normal, because the money had been changed after the war over. The communist don t want to use the South, the money, after the war they didn t want to use the South people s money, so they change the money, so most the people became poor again, so they only limit how much money you can change, other than that, any other money you had to throw them away. KL: So how did you earn money when it was hard times? TAL: You have to go, you know actually, with me I have to in the camp, I guess people have to work for low money, but I in the education camp and we didn t have any money and they just provide us the food, not a lot of food, we have to grow the food, we have to do the farming, and in the education camp, that s how we got the food to eat together, but some people have the

11 VAOHP money, the family have the money, they came over to the camp to take care of them, but I don t have any family, so you know, people have been, my dad getting old so I didn t want him going over there to see me. So I look like I disappear so he don t even know me, where I am, so I just work in the camp and get some money. And get some food, that s all. And sometimes I, because I know a lot of stuff, I can fix a lot of stuff when I served in the army, I do a lot of stuff for people around, and after the war, a lot of things broken, like the jeep cannot run, the machine cannot work, so I do for them, and they pay me some money. It s not a lot, but it s enough for you to buy some stuff, some clothes, you know, used clothes not new clothes, and then some food to live until the time I get out of the country. KL: So you were in re-education camp until what year? TAL: I in the re-education camp until 1975 to KL: And what year did you leave Vietnam? TAL: I left Vietnam in 1981, by the boat people because I go and I fix the boat and I drive the boat, so people hire me to take care of the boat, and I drive that boat came to America. KL: What was it like leaving Vietnam? And how did it make you feel? TAL: At that day, I left Saigon about 4 pm, and me and another friend we drive the boat to the center of the river, you know the middle of nowhere, and we pick up some water and we buy some fuel, and some food put in the boat, and at midnight, I pick up 48, total about 46 people with two of us it was 48 people total. 48 people total in the boat, including the children and some other people too. In our boat they have the two people they called the officer of the navy, at that time I think they can help me because I m not in the navy I was in the air force, one officer in the navy, one s a doctor in navy, but actually I don t think they were navy, the real navy, because

12 VAOHP when the boat get out to the ocean they had the sea sick very bad, and they cannot stand up until we docked, until the boat docked in the Indonesia. KL: Did you know all the people on the boat? TAL: Yeah, I know everybody in the boat, I had to, I believe we had only two people can control the boat, so that me and another guy, and we have to take care totally, 46 people, and women, men, and children. And you know, so I have to, actually, in three days out of the country, I have to stay awake because I have to pump the water out of the boat, that s a very dirty job because people pee, poop, and throw up in the boat, and the water went up into the engine compartment and that s a lot of water in there so I had to pump the water out at night time to make the boat stay afloat. A lot of people got sick, and they don t even know what they do. And some people I have to hold them when they use the restroom because they could not sit any way, and then I have to give them food to eat, the water to drink because they don t know, other than that they would have been died in three days. And we have to be against the pirates too because at night time outside in the ocean there s a lot of pirates out there, and we only carry a couple guns with me, I only carry a couple guns with me, that s all I have. So until we arrived into, I believe it is Natuna island, one of the small islands close to Borneo, so I landed, so I docked the boat in there and that time we meet the US Army, US Navy, and then they transfer us to, we stayed in Natuna for two week, two or three week, I can t remember. At that time I was working too, I have to do translator with Indonesia people, and I got the food from people to eat, so kind of very, you know, cool trip. I can t believe I handle the trip very nice, and you know, and good. KL: Did anyone die on the ship? TAL: Nobody died on the ship, that s a good thing, nobody died on the ship. KL: Did you bring anything with you?

13 VAOHP TAL: I don t have anything. I don t bring anything with me but the gun and bullet. KL: Did any family members come along other than you? TAL: No I don t have any family members go with me. And that time I go with my girlfriend and her family because the boat owned by my girlfriend s family and some other people I don t like them, but I have to take care of them because all of them sick so some people don t like me either, but that s the way I have to control it. Because that time right outside the ocean, and I take care the boat, same like I m a captain, so they have to obey my rules, so I treat everybody the same, and nobody s different. KL: When you left Vietnam, did you feel bad about leaving your dad there? TAL: Yeah. When I left the country, I feel bad to leave my dad and brother, but you know, I think that s survival. You have to do whatever you have to do because it s a very hard time in the country, and the communist don t let me do anything, and I have to do the hard work, not even, I work for shipyard, I go back to the shipyard to find a job, but you know, they don t let you do good work unless you are a communist family. That s why the reason I had to leave the country. KL: Did you dad know when you left? Or because you guys didn t contact each other during your re-education camp, did you just leave and he didn t know? TAL: No, he know the time I left, but he don t know what day I left Vietnam, he know I would be leave the country, but he don t know what day I would be leave Vietnam until when I arrive in Natuna, I have, I meet one the people, a friend, and he send the paper, the telegram to Vietnam say I arrived to Natuna island safe, and that time my dad say, after a while he contact me when I was in the refugee camp, at that time he say he feel good because I left safely. Because most the people left Vietnam, they can t make it, and also they have a lot of pirates, and when we left, we have one the boat, I believe it was a pirate because they want to take over our boat, but I shoot

14 VAOHP them so they go away, and nobody come back, and no pirate come back at that time anymore. They shoot at us, then I shoot at them, I guess they lost, so they just go away. KL: What was it like leaving your son behind? TAL: You know, kind of bad, you know, you have a lot of, you cannot put the things right in your head. You have to do whatever you have to do, and everything else you do it later because you have to, like that time, because I serve the army, at that time, now Vietnam was kind of open a little bit, but before when you serve in the army before, you are a United State military, you cannot get anything good. It s not a good job, but decent job in Vietnam because most the decent job you have to, for the people with the family with the communist. I guess every country is the same, because the people, when they dream, they can have everything, when the people lose they don t have nothing left. KL: So did you leave your son behind with his mom because they wanted to stay, or because you couldn t bring them with you? TAL: No, I cannot bring them with me, because at that time he was very young and also when you left, when I left the country, you don t think you can make it or not, same like you go into the war. Because I go because people trust me to protect the boat, you know to protect the boat, to fix the boat, and to protect the people in the boat. Look like you are a, you know, the people have the money and they have a boat and they want to hire a security, like security guard to protect themselves in the boat, that s why I go I don t have to pay. Most the people who left the country you have to pay a lot of money, I don t have to pay anything because I have a gun, the power, military training, so I know what I can do outside the country when I hit into danger or the boat get hijack. That s why most the boat left Vietnam don t have people like me, so that s

15 VAOHP why they have hijack by Thailand, the hijack from the Thailand. But my boat, my girlfriend s father hired me to do that. That s why I have to protect everybody out there, you know. KL: So when you landed in a refugee camp, did you stay at the refugee camp for long or did they transfer you somewhere else? TAL: When I go to the refugee camp, it s called the Galang Island, and in, I think it s in Indonesia it s a Galang in Indonesia, and I stay there, and that time I work with the Indonesia people. So I make some money at the refugee camp and I stay in the refugee camp about a year before, because you have to go to the education before you came to America so you know what America looks like, or something like that, but we already, because that s the education from America. They think most Vietnam people don t know anything about America, but when I serve in the army, we know most everything in America, what they have and what they do. But when a lot of people out of country for refugee, most the people don t have an education that s why they called it education amp, so you can educate people how to speak English and everything. KL: Is that where you learned to speak English? TAL: No. I didn t go to speak, or go to learn English in here or either in refugee camp. I do go to school there but I didn t learn anything, most the time I learn when I serve in the army because when you go to the army you have to know how to speak English when you deal with American people and know how to speak English, and know the operator system, and everything they use English language, so you have to know everything. KL: Did they teach you how to write English or read English, or only just speak it? TAL: No, yeah you have to know how to write and read English because everything in training in the helicopter or anything like, some other stuff, everything by English not use Vietnam language, so you know, so actually when I serve in the Air Force everything in English I had to

16 VAOHP learn by myself. So first beginning it kind of very hard, but after a while you know and you keep learning by yourself, and the main thing I learn that s a dictionary. That s the best book to learn English. KL: How did you get to come to the United States? Was it like family sponsorship, refugee status, or by taking classes? TAL: I went to America because of refugee status because I service in the army and I don t have any people here, so they put me in the, you know, they called it the refugee. I stay in the Galang island, I believe over a year, and then I came in America, I believe Somehow in that area, I can t remember much, but I came here and when I was in refugee camp I have, I adopt one the kid, the same boat as me but he don t have any relative in the boat, and he do have a relative but relative doesn t want him, so he don t have any people go with because he s a minor, at the camp nobody take care of him, and he in my boat, and I alone so I let him stay with me and I take care of him until he came to the United States with me. Because when he came to the United States and someone have been sponsored for him, I believe his uncle or somehow in his family, so when they came here, and some other reason they sponsor him and he don t stay with me anymore after almost two years in the refugee camps. He stay with me for two years, almost two years in the refugee camp. KL: Did you stay in contact with him when he went to America or did you guys lose contact after you left the refugee camp? TAL: No, I didn t contact with him after, I believe after 20 years later, he come to visit me. After 20 years later, 20 years or something like that, and then all of sudden I know he find his family and then he contact me, but I don t think I met him after that because I know where he live, and

17 VAOHP he married now, but I don t know he remember I take care him or not, I hear some people say he says he remembers me. That s okay, I don t ask any return. KL: When you were at the camp you said you were able to contact your dad, did you contact any other family members like the son or your brother? TAL: No because I just contact with my dad because my dad would be transfer whatever I say, or what I say with any people because it was very limited when you in the refugee camp, very limited on the letter because it take very long time to go there and sometime the letter never arrive. So you know, we just try to use the telegraph, so kind of short letter, by the electric, so you know it s there, but other than that I do take a picture to send to my dad, but I don t know if he receive it or not to my son, but I don t know. But when you in the camp, you have no control and the paper work send to Vietnam, you don t know if they came or not, so we just use telegraph, because telegraph you know right away they send the letter to your family. KL: Did you keep any copies of those letters? TAL: I do keep it for a while, but then I don t know where I put it after a while, after 10 years, I think after 10 or 15 years in America, I don t know where I put it. But I still have a lot of stuff I still keep it until that time, but after that time I don t know where the picture gone, so kind of in America there is a lot of stress so you lose a lot of memory, so I don t remember where I put it. KL: When you came to America, what was the first place you went to? TAL: When the first time I came to America, I went to Louisiana with my sponsor. I believe I stay there for maybe a week, I believe so. And I have only, I don t know, I think it s a refugee agent; they gave me $200 or $220. And then I buy my airfare ticket from New Orleans to Los Angeles, because I have a brother who lived in Los Angeles. I came to Los Angeles at midnight and nobody pick me up at the airport and I don t know how to get into his house, and I go

18 VAOHP outside and looking for transportation. They said they have a bus but in the morning, they don t have it right now because it is too late, and I sit outside of LAX. I remember one the black guys ride the taxi, he said where you going, I told him I m going to Duarte, and I don t even know where Duarte is, that s where my brother live with my Aunt in Duarte. And he told me it s expensive man, because it s too far. And I tell him I only have $20 in my pocket, but of course I believe I have some more than that, $25 or $26 or something like that, but I tell him I have to keep a couple dollars to living, and I can pay you only $20. He told me he cannot take me there for $20. I sit there for a while on the bench outside the LAX, and then I saw him, I saw the same taxi come by an hour later, and he told me come in man and give me $20, and I give him $20, and I saw a couple customers in the taxi, and he drive, I remember now, but that time I don t remember where he go. So he drive, he drop two of those people in the Hilton, one of the hotel, Hilton hotel in Pasadena, I know after that, but that time I don t even know what is it. And after that I knew it was the Hilton in Pasadena, and after dropping the two customers and he drop me to my brother s house at the Buena Vista in Duarte. So I go and see my brother. KL: What was your first impression of America or California and New Orleans? TAL: Actually, when I came to America, you know, kind of, a lot of high tech, a lot better than Vietnam, the house is bigger, we don t have like that in Vietnam. The thing I learn, a lot of people in America kind of different. When I first came here before I was in Vietnam, I think America is like beautiful, nice, but when I came here, I see a lot of poor area and, you know, before when I was in Vietnam, I didn t think America had like poor people or something like that. When I came to America I see a lot of them and, you know, people cheating a lot. So it s nothing to impress when I came, but after that I go find a job and, you know, I don t think anything is impress, but I see a lot of people nice and honest. But other than that, there s a lot of

19 VAOHP bad people, a lot of cheating, you know, so they make it kind of seem like at that time I learn every country is the same, there s nothing nicer than other country. Of course they have some high tech is better, living is better, the food is better, but you know, when you have a job you can get most everything like that. KL: When you went on the airplane and flew from New Orleans to California? Or when you landed in New Orleans or California, did people treat you differently because you were Vietnamese? TAL: When I go from Singapore to America, I go with a lot of refugees at that time, and yeah, I believe they treat you different, but actually they treat me better because I speak English and you know, I m kind of like translator for people there, so whatever they need, they tell me and I tell the people work for aircraft, tell them whatever they need. And I tell them, and it was kind of okay, because a lot of people don t understand what they say. Sometimes they have seatbelt and I have to translate it to the Vietnamese and tell them to seatbelt and everything like that. And when I came to New Orleans, and then from New Orleans I fly to LAX, they don t treat any people different, everybody s the same. So I go in there, just myself, and you sit, you know, people don t mind what you do, that s a good thing about America, you know, people do whatever you do in your own business, it s not other s business. Some people say American is discrimination, when I was in high school they said a lot of discrimination, but with me, I don t see that, I see every country they treat me the same, but actually I think America is just open more than any other country. KL: How did you settle down here, or earn money to live here? Or did your brother help you out at first?

20 VAOHP TAL: When I first came here, that night, no, no, the next day, I have to go to K-mart, I remember, I walk to K-mart I buy a couple jeans, a couple shirts, so I can find a job. So after that at night time, I go to Winchell s Donuts, I remember, Winchell s Donuts, I bought a cup of coffee. Because in Vietnam usually we drink coffee at night, we go out at night drinking coffee, and sit down, you know like a coffee shop or something like that, but in America they don t have that. At that time they didn t have a Starbucks at that time, they only have Winchell Donut, I go to Winchell Donut and I got a cup of coffee and talk to a couple of people, and one of the guy he work at Winchell Donut ask me, you want a job?, I say what job, he say bakery, I say I don t know how to bake. He said just come in, you want the job, fill out the form, come in tomorrow, I teach you how to do the bakery, and at that time I just fill out the application and I come next day and I have a job in the bakery for a while. And then when I do the bakery, and I have a little bit of money I buy a car and got a driver license, I bought the car, I drive to the gas station, I fill up the gas, and one of the guy ask me, hey, you want a job?, I say what job, he said attendant, you know, you take care the gas station for me, and I say okay. At that time, I live in Duarte, kind of small town in America, and I go to work at the station so night time I work at Winchell Donut, and day time I work at the gas station, and in the evening I sleep a little bit, and then I go to Winchell Donut to work again. I work a couple jobs for a while, I believe it s more, maybe about a year, and then when I live in the apartment, they have one the neighbors he worked for car dealer, Ford Motor company car dealer, and he ask me do you want to get a job?, and I said yeah. Because he saw I work at the gas station, you know, I do most, I just take care of mini market, take care of tow truck, I take care, you know,do a lot of stuff in the gas station, and he ask me you want a job and I said yeah, I know how to do it, but I m not good out of it, he said

21 VAOHP don t worry I take you in, and he take me in and then I work for Ford dealer until that time until KL: Were you saving up for anything when you were first working at Winchell Donut? TAL: Yeah, I save up some money to buy the car, a couple hundred dollar vehicle. KL: Was there a reason you needed the car, or did it make it easier for you? TAL: It made it easier for you to ride around, when you don t have a car, you go anywhere, you have to ask people to give you a ride, and sometimes people don t have a car. You have to buy a car in America, and then I go buy a car, and then buy the insurance and I drive around to go to the market, you know, go further, and I believe after a year, and then I fix up the car, you know, that car I just bought was Camaro, I don t know the year, but Camaro, Chevy engine, 350 engine, a very good Camaro. I drive that car from California to Prince George in Canada, small town all the way up near Alaska, to visit my girlfriend, and then we married, after that we married, and we drive the same car to come back to California. KL: How did she get to Canada? TAL: My girlfriend she go with her family, because her family, all of them live in Canada, she lived in refugee camp for a while, and they go to Canada before I go to the United States. Because they have a family that live over there, and I don t have any people so I have to stay in the camp, wait for refugee pick up, and also because I m in the army, so I go with the army rules, so I came to America because I serve in the army, and that s all. KL: How do you feel about your decision to come to the US? TAL: I think at that time I don t think anything, I just want to go somewhere that is better. I can find something to do. You know, can do something for my life. Can build up my job, can have a house, can have, you know, family. But when I go to America, so it s nothing, I like it. I worked.

22 VAOHP I tried to save the money to buy a car, small car, have a family, and then I buy the new house, and then the first time we bought, after I marry, we bought a condominium, and after that we sell the condominium and we buy the house because we have the kids. So everything seemed like it was okay with me because I don t know, I m not rich, but I believe I get, I do the best I can to support my family and I m the kind of the people that like to work, so no matter what, either time I got sick so bad I still work. I remember the day I came back from the hospital, and my daughter, I cannot stand, and because I broke my leg I cannot stand up, my daughter had to hold me for me to fix the couple of heaters because the house been getting cold after a couple of days. After a week I stay in the hospital, so I m the people that like to work. KL: After you settled down in America did any of your family members come, or did your son come to America to stay here? TAL: No, after I settled down in America and I believe one time, a couple of times, I ask my dad, I want to sponsor for him to come here, but he said no. He d been in service in the air force for so long, and he have been training in America, he lived in America before, and now he want to spend his life, the rest of his life, in Vietnam. And because I believe the first beginning when I left the country, it was the hard time, the people very poor, not every people, some people still rich, some people still poor. Every country s the same. After that, the communist they open the door so people can go back to visit, more business booming, and that s the reason my dad just want to stay in the country because he s getting old and also he had a stroke so, he know when you re in America, you re sick, you re by yourself, nobody helps you. In Vietnam when you re sick, the neighbor still maybe, sometime the neighbor come over and help you, or friend come over to help you, people share each other when the time they re getting old. They re always have a lot of place for old people hang around, just sit down, talk, play games, but if you, that s what I

23 VAOHP believe my dad did not want to come to stay in America when he get old, because you will be lonely at home, every kid, your son may go to work all day, come home in the evening to see you for a couple of hours, and that s it. Maybe go out with each other once in a while, that s why my dad didn t want to come here, and I do sponsor for my son, but some reason the people miss, the US embassy, they told me my son didn t reply for the paperwork, so he cannot come here. And I asked him, you want, I can re-sponsor for you again, but now it s harder because now I become handicap, the income is limited, so that s why it is very hard to sponsor for him to come to America, but he said no, it s okay, I can still do a lot of stuff in Vietnam, I can make money, and I believe he has his mom, and his mom marry again, and they break up again and have one son, and the son died too. So she, she stay in Vietnam that s why my son wanted to stay with her and take care of her when she getting old. KL: Did you ever think about going back to Vietnam and living there, or did you ever want to go back and live there? TAL: That s a good question. A couple years ago, about 2005, I was thinking about going back to Vietnam when I got sick here, but I changed my mind again, and I may go in and out Vietnam to see my son, or my grandkids, because I have three grandkids now, my son has three sons, three boys, so I have three grandkids. So I may, later I may sponsor for them to come here to go to school here, but living here, I don t know, they want to living here or live in Vietnam. Because there s a lot of people that love to come to America, but my son doesn t bother him much, because I believe he can make money over there, he can have a good job there, so of course America you have more chance to make the money. But a lot of people come here don t even have a job, so that s why the reason he stay there. I don t know if I want to go back to Vietnam to live there when I get old, or if I want to stay in America, I have kids in America, so I believe

24 VAOHP my decision is just some days I stay in America, sometimes I stay in Vietnam to stay with my son for a couple of months, and my daughters in America for a couple months. I think that s my final decision. KL: Did you want to, when you were thinking about going to Vietnam, was it because you missed your family that was there or was it just; you wanted to feel more at home? TAL: I don t know. Some people just say I miss the country, but after 20 years, you have the struggle with, another word I use is survival. You have to go to a lot of places to survive, to make life a little bit better, and after 20 years, more than 20 years, and I don t think I remember Vietnam much, I put everything behind in the past. My life is a little bit better, because if you keep thinking you ll have more stress because the way I think everything from yesterday you have to let them go, and move on with the new, and try to make your life a little better. KL: When you were in America, did you ever think back to the war, or the days you were a soldier? TAL: Yeah, that s always in your memory. Sometimes, the worst thing is that every day when you sit down, sometimes, at night time, especially when I serve in the army at night time. In the evening, sometime you stay in the camp right in the middle of nowhere and you look at the sky in the evening, when they sky start turning dark and I believe everywhere is the same, and it brings back a lot of memories, and that s not a good memory, but you remember a lot of bad stories. If you can make a movie, that s a hell of a movie, the people have to go through. It s not like an hour movie, two hour movie, but it s a long, long way. You can see how you survive, how you eat when you live in the army, of course everybody get paid, but sometime you don t even have food to eat, sometime you have to eat, they call the canned food for a couple days, and drinking the dirty water, when you don t have water. So just a survivor and the time I left, when

25 VAOHP the time you survive in the war, and the time you survive when you service the war, and the time I survive when I left the country to go to America, and the time I stay in America to make my life a little bit change, so you don t have to go through the depression it s very hard, because it s long and very hard. KL: Do you ever try to just push back your memories of the Vietnam War behind, or do you just, if they come back and you remember them, it s okay? TAL: I always remember, you cannot put that thing behind because there s a lot of friend, a lot of people you go through, a lot of pictures you see it, of the war. So kind of you cannot forget it, and sometimes you sleep and you can see the memories back, for more than 30 years now. I don t think anybody ever forgets it completely. Because you can see it, sometime you wake up after the bomb drop one place, or after the rocket drop one place, you can see the body parts over the place, children, women, civilian people, all kind of stuff, it s hard to forget it. KL: Does that ever affect what you do in America? TAL: They might or might not because I m not a doctor so I don t know that much about that. But I try the best I can. That s why I learn things, when you have a problem, just close the door and move onto the next step, so you can feel your life s a little bit better because the memories are always there, they don t go away. KL: Are there any activities you do in America that you choose to do because you sort of remember what you used to do in Vietnam or because you want to keep the things you used to do in Vietnam and do them here as well? TAL: Actually, in Vietnam and here, it s totally different jobs. I work in Vietnam, some like I do, it s just different job, it s hard, it s not that different, but kind of different place and different ways to make a living. In Vietnam, when I was young, I born in the war, I born in the time they

26 VAOHP have a war in Vietnam, so the life was already hard, so the people have to learn how to survive, and then when I grow up in Vietnam, you have to do everything you can to survive, to make life better. Like you want to have a Honda motorcycle or you want to have nice clothes, you have to work harder, same like in America, but in America, you have more chance to get a different job, better job. But in Vietnam, you have to be work smart, and then I believe every country is the same way. You have to work smarter a little bit to make your life a little bit better. KL: How about the things you do on the side, just for fun? TAL: You know when the time I was in America, I don t do much of fun stuff. Sometime, before sometime I ride the bicycle, I go out with friends, go do things with friends, and sometimes we go out fishing with the friends, and usually go shooting, and make some ammunition, you know, you just make you, just put your mind in a different kind of world so you feel better, a little bit. And then, also, when you go shooting, so you kind of remember the time you re in war, in Vietnam, serving in the army. And I like to, sometime I like to collect the old guns at the time I was in service in Vietnam. To have the time to go back a little bit, and to the time to relax your mind, if you re working, keep working all the time, it kind of burns out, but I don t stay too long with the clear out, like other people use to. Like they have to go out to fishing, they have to go out to play golf, I do when I have time only. KL: What kind of guns do you have from, that resemble, or like the ones you used to use in Vietnam? TAL: Like the M1 Garand, that s what we used in Vietnam, and you know that s all I have. They have some other gun in Vietnam too, but kind of expensive and you know I don t want to get too much. I just get one, that s good enough to remember the time I was in service. That gun I use it in 1972.