SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 1 Robert Middleton Interviews David Steele

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1 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 1 Hi, everyone. This is Robert Middleton of Action Plan Marketing and the Action Plan Marketing Club, and today I m interviewing David Steele of the Relationship Coaching Institute. Welcome to the interview, David. Hi, Robert. Thanks very much for having me. We re going to have an interesting time talking today about coaching and relationships. How I met David was at a workshop, and we talked. We connected. I found out a bit more about his business. It kind of intrigued me how he was using coaching and relationships. I asked David, Well, you know, what is the connection between coaching relationships and business? And that s some of what we re going to talk about today. But before we do that, David, can you tell me a little bit about the Coaches Relationship Institute, how you got started with this, why are you on this path to begin with, and a bit about the institute? Sure. I d love to. It s Relationship Coaching Institute. The URL is and if you put relationship coaching in Google or any search engine, you re going to find us as the number-one result because we are the first and largest international relationship coach training organization.

2 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 2 Founded in 1997 by me, yours truly, I m basically a marriage and family therapist. I got licensed in 1985, and I specialized working with couples for many years in private practice. I burned out. Working with couples on the verge of divorce is really hard, and it s hard for them, too. I really got that the way to change the world is not necessarily to try to save marriages or try to fix something when it s broken. The effective way to change the world is to reach people when they have a goal, and it s to reach people when they re motivated to do something about that goal, not after they ve failed at it. So I was attracted to coaching because of that. When coaching emerged as a brand-new helping profession, I had to check it out, and I fell in love with coaching, sought coaching training myself, decided to apply coaching to relationships, and looked around for a training program. Who can show me how to coach relationships, how to apply this powerful new helping methodology to relationships? There was nothing. There was no training program at all. I was shocked. When did you start?

3 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 3 This was in Okay. Yeah, so not that long ago, but there wasn t anything out there, huh? Nothing. Zero. And so I set about for myself to determine, Well, if you re going to coach somebody in their relationships using this powerful helping methodology, what would that look like? Coaching is unique. It s not consulting. It s not giving advice. It s not being the expert. You know, it s truly a very collaborative, equal partnership kind of support relationship. And as a therapist, I m very used to being the expert, but I didn t know how to help somebody in their relationships as a coach, so I set about applying my coaching training that I was learning about coaching to relationships. Because you had a lot of experience with that as a therapist, so you were well-qualified to be the pioneer. Well, maybe. I had an epiphany at this time. It was probably the biggest epiphany of my life. It was like the skies parted and lightning came down and struck me. It s really a simple realization, though. It s, singles become

4 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 4 couples. And it never occurred to me at all as a therapist to do anything with singles. As a coach, it was completely logical that who has the goal of a successful relationship? Well, that s pretty much everybody. And half the population is single in the US. That s 101 million, 46% of the adult population. This over what, over age 18? Yeah. Forty-six percent of the adult population in the US is single. That s 101 million. It s a huge population. So as a coach, I really got that, Wow. I can lower the divorce rate by starting working with singles. And then I found that singles are easy to market to and identify, and they find and sign up for my classes and programs and coaching. So my practice took off, and then other people wanted me to show them what I was doing and how I was doing it. And that, basically, Robert, was the birth of Relationship Coaching Institute because, they wanted me to show them. So I conducted some trainings. And I also figure that I can lower the divorce rate by training other people to do this. I can t do it all by myself. So you ve trained how many people now?

5 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 5 We ve had over 5,000 graduates in the past 13 years, and we are a membership organization. This is totally unique for coach training organizations. Usually you sign up, you pay your money, you get your training and go. We are a membership organization because I really want to provide support and mentoring for the people that we train to build a successful practice, get clients, be able to make a living at this, and to be able to problem-solve situations that come up. So I like the ongoing, collaborative relationship. I just don t want to train people and say goodbye. Right. That s great. So everyone that s been trained by you is in that network, and you have constant contact with them, do trainings, etc. Yeah. We have four main areas of Relationship Coaching Institute. We have our trainings, of course, and certification for people that want it and need it. We have our marketing support, and we have our practice-building support. So we actually do everything we can to help our coaches get clients. Because we re Number 1 ranked in Google for relationship coaching, anybody that comes to our website looking for relationship coaching gets geared to our coaches.

6 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 6 So you are the guy that can answer my questions in this area, I m sure. You ve probably worked with every kind of relationship issue you can imagine, probably some you can t imagine, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I know that you re a business coach, and I have a lot of experience with small businesses and family businesses and relationships in the corporate workplace. So bring it on, Robert. Well, here s an interesting thing. In my Marketing Mastery program, just in this last week we re getting a spate of s in the Google group and conversations about difficult clients, all kinds of things. People miss appointments and act as if it s nothing, and demand huge amounts of time without wanting to pay. You know, there s a million issues, but a lot have been coming up recently. I don t know if you re going to coach me on this, so to speak, but more probably give us a perspective about dealing with difficult clients. That s a relationship as well. You enter into a relationship. You usually have a limited period, but it is a relationship.

7 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 7 And the thing that I ve heard with so many of my clients over the years is, I just don t know what to do with this client. They re driving me crazy. They re taking up ridiculous amounts of my time. I don t know how to set barriers. I want to be really nice to them when I think I have to be a little more hard-ass, but I don t know how to do that, yadda yadda. There s a lot of things that sort of come up. We all want ideal clients that just basically do what we want them to do and produce great results. And we realize then, in a way, we are in the middle of a relationship. And people coming to us, often it s because they have a problem. They have a goal, but they also have a problem. They don t have an ability. And issues come up. So that s sort of the big picture. If you were to be working with me who is a, you know, coach, a consultant, someone like that that s working very intimately with their clients, can you tell me what are some of the most common problems you would see, and what are some of your approaches to that problem? I know that s a really big question that we could talk about for a long time, but from that we can kind of narrow down.

8 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 8 Yeah. I d love to address that, but let me check this out with you. You addressed the relationship between the professional and the client and how it can be difficult and challenging, and they take up your time, and they have needs. Can I address that first? Yeah, absolutely. I have a piece of good news and bad news. And not very many people know this, so here it is. Believe it or not, our relationships are our mirrors. Our relationships are our mirrors, so it s like we re looking in the mirror, and what s being reflected back to us is who we are and how we re showing up. And relationships have serious problems when we don t realize this, don t understand it, don t take responsibility for it, and we blame the mirror. We blame the other person for what s happening in the relationship. They seem to be the one that s manifesting this unpleasant behavior, so why not blame them, for god s sake? Yeah. So it s easy to point the finger because they appear to be the problem. But what s really going on, and some of the things that you were describing in terms of the professional-client relationship, it s really about the

9 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 9 professional setting boundaries, being clear about the rules and the procedures. And it s like parenting children. You ve got to have rules. Tell the child what the rules are and how to follow them. I mean, sometimes we assume, Well, you should just know. But you have to lay it out clearly. So here s another relationship principle we can apply here. Issues, meaning problems in a relationship, are unmet needs. Issues are unmet needs. So if there s a problem that comes up, like, This client s calling me at all hours of the night, well, there s an unmet need here. There s an unmet need that you have. There s an unmet need that the client has. So the client has an unmet need for more support than you re providing, or maybe it s not being delivered effectively or at the right times or in the right way. So then the question is, Well, how can I support this client 24 hours a day, maybe, in a way that s effective, in a way that is sustainable for me and would work for them? So those are the kinds of questions that you want to ask. For example, if I have a client, and sometimes coaches and therapists and helping professionals, when a client says they re going to do something like a homework

10 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 10 assignment or something and they come back and they haven t done it, we say, Oh, okay. That s never happened to me. This client s resisting, or This client s not ready. Yeah, well, that s a really common thing, and that can be very frustrating. And then we think, Well, what does that have to do with me? I gave him the damn assignment. They re not doing it, the jerk. So let me tell you the assumption that I make. If an agreement is not kept, it s simply an ineffective agreement because if it s a good agreement, then it meets both people s needs, it s realistic, both parties want to keep the agreement, and it s kept. So I assume, and I d encourage you to assume, that if it s not kept, there must be something wrong with the agreement. It s not a good agreement yet. So you take a look at, Okay, how can we get followthrough on both ends? What are the unmet needs here? How can we make this a no-brainer, no-fail kind of agreement? And I assume that it s always possible. So remember, the issues are unmet needs, the issue being the agreement wasn t kept or the homework assignment

11 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 11 wasn t done or the client didn t do what they said they were going to do. Okay. What is the unmet need? How can we best address it? It s not necessarily something that you need to do. Maybe it is, but maybe there s something in the system. So for example, I ve had really, really, really needy clients. I mean, in the therapy field we call those nightmare clients, borderline. They are just so out there and so needy and so neurotic. So reactive. Yeah, and they seem to need you 24 hours a day. And with a client like that, you know, you can set up a voic and say, You can call me any time day or night on this line, my private voic line just for you, and you can leave any kind of a message you want. It s a message, and I promise you I will listen to the message, but I can t promise I ll listen to it right away because, you know, I sleep, and I have a family. But here. Here s your number. Call this line any time night or day. So for the borderline client, it allows them to get it off their chest and get that immediate gratification of that connection with you. They hear your outgoing voic

12 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 12 message say, Hi, Sarah. I m so glad you called in. Please let me know what s on your mind today. So that s an example of a creative agreement that might just work for both the professional and the client. I assume that a good agreement is going to be creative. It is going to be what we might call the third option. The third option is not always easily apparent. Usually you have to get creative to come up with it. So there s always a third option. It s not just my way or your way or the black or right or the right or wrong or the two obvious options. There s probably a third option out there that is going to be the perfect one that s going to work well for us. You just have to find it. That might take some digging and testing and trying things. Yeah, and sometimes we get sort of absorbed in our own thoughts and our own ideas, and we forget that other people have ideas and wisdom, and sometimes all it takes to solve a problem or to get unstuck is to ask somebody for help or to talk with somebody else about it. We have kind of a Lone Ranger culture where we kind of expect to be able to do things ourselves, and that actually

13 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 13 is counterproductive because in reality, we re social beings. We need other people to survive and thrive. So if you re ever having a problem and you can t solve it, the best thing you can do is just talk to somebody else about it. It almost doesn t matter who. The guy at the bus stop, or the guy serving you coffee, it almost doesn t matter who. If you keep it inside your own head, then it s not going to be solved. You re going to stay stuck. Well, yeah. That s why we re finding this Google group to be so useful when we get stuck with a difficult kind of client or something else. We put it out to the group, and it s amazing how people are happy to jump in with ideas and other possibilities and letters you could write or things you could say. It s amazing. So I get what you re saying there. Let me give you an example, Robert. You gave us a gift a couple of days ago of your time. And we got on a conference line, and you talked with myself and my business partner about our website. And in truth, nothing you said was new, to me anyway. But it came from you. With such incredible authority! It made a tremendous difference for us. It stimulated us into action. We re going to do something about this. And

14 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 14 even though the information itself wasn t new, there s nothing you said I didn t know, however, it made a tremendous difference in our partnership, in our ability to approach our website effectively. That s a great example of how we need social support. Nobody is successful alone. Yeah. David, do you mind if I go back to some of these things that you said earlier, because you really sort of ripped off a whole bunch of things that I think we could go into a little bit more deeply? And that I think the most powerful thing you said was about people, we re mirrors of other people. I want to get into that a bit later. But tell me a little bit about some ideas around setting boundaries because I ve found that is definitely an issue for people. It s sort of we want to be of service. We want to take care of our clients. And then we say something inane like, Call me 24/7, as if people wouldn t really take that seriously. And all of a sudden you re getting 24/7 contact, and you go, What did I do here? And so can you share some ideas around boundaries in a business relationship that are healthy? By the way, I ve got to say a lot of these issues are not big issues for me, but they have been in the past. I ve really

15 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 15 gone through all of these, the boundaries thing, etc., but I d love your take on it. So what are parameters that we re talking about? Because I know just setting this up, just changing this, can make the whole landscape different, and we can start to deal with clients in a way where we do not feel overwhelmed, that we re being taken advantage of, etc., etc. Well, that s a great question, Robert, and there s a couple of approaches here. One is it s really important to know what the reason for the problem is. And on the one hand, it might not even matter because, you know, what you might do about it would not change. But we need to understand ourselves enough to know, What s tripping me up? Is it my fear of rejection? Am I not setting boundaries because I don t want this person to reject me and I want to be liked? Is it not wanting to hurt their feelings? Am I believing, falsely or not, that if I set boundaries they re going to be hurt by that? So what s my motivation here? But even then, if you don t understand your motivation, it s still okay. It doesn t change what you do about it. But it helps. That kind of consciousness and awareness helps you make effective choices on an ongoing basis.

16 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 16 Let s say I teach you how to set effective boundaries with your clients. And, you know, okay, I give you the fish. Here s a fish, Robert. Okay, now you know how to set boundaries with your clients. But if you don t know what s preventing you from having effective boundaries, then it s going to happen in your other relationships as well. So it is important to know what s motivating you. Now what happens with most people is that they get scared to assert boundaries for several important reasons. Certainly the fear of rejection and certainly the fear of hurting somebody, but also it has to do with feelings of worth, so what s inside is showing up on the outside. Remember, our relationships are our mirrors. So my own feelings of lack of self-worth or not feeling like I m a good enough professional is coming out in this relationship with my client, so they re not respecting me and my rules and my boundaries or my needs enough because they re feeling insecure. It s like if you re a parent and you re scared about something, your kid s going to be scared about it. They need you to be the strong one. They need you to be confident. Your clients need you to be the strong one,

17 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 17 need you to be confident, need you to be clear about what the rules are and assert the rules, and that helps them feel secure. They need that feeling of security. What happens is you are actually doing them a tremendous favor by having clear rules and boundaries and asserting them firmly, just like in parenting. And you are doing yourself a favor. But if you don t feel worthy of it, if you have any of those self-esteem issues, you don t feel like you re a good enough professional at the same time, it s going to be hard for you to do that. The good news is you don t have to feel it to do it. You can do what we call in the therapy field acting as if. That s probably my best take on it, do it for yourself even though you might not feel worthy of it. But if you re not going to do it for yourself, do it for your client because that s what they need to experience you as a qualified, credible professional that they can trust and feel secure with. They need those boundaries, and they need them to be clear and asserted firmly, just like with parents. That s very good. Can I give you an example of that, David? Please do.

18 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 18 In the process of talking to people about the Mastery program, I say near the end, This is for people who want to take their business to a whole other level, etc., etc. But I need to make sure that you can do the following things. If you can t, the program won t be for you. And they re simple, but we have two group sessions a month. To get value, you need to be at those sessions. They re on Tuesdays. They re at noon. Is that going to be an issue for you? We re talking really simple stuff, but it s like, Okay, no problem. Number 2 is we have a one-on-one session a month. That is going to be somewhat flexible, but we ask that if you make that appointment that you keep that unless you have a real emergency, blah, blah, blah. I sort of outline things like that, and I say, We will give you homework, and we do ask that you get it to us. We have a report that you send every month, and you send it before the meeting so I can read it, blah, blah, blah. I want to know if someone can adhere to those basic boundaries going in. Then after they ve started, we reiterate all those and make sure that everyone s clear. It s sort of like, as you say, rules. What do you have rules? You have rules for games,

19 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 19 right? And if you don t have rules, there isn t a game. You can t play. It s crazy. Just like I was telling David, I went to a baseball game last night. You know, a baseball game without rules is a lot of people running around a field, throwing, catching, hitting and running. But that s not a baseball game. It s like, This is how you play with me to win. And you re very confident about that. But as you say, you might not be confident to begin with, but you write it down anyway, and you put it out there. And then you ve got a structure, and over time you ll start to feel comfortable with it yourself. So rules are rules and parameters. Yes. You want some feedback about addressing the participants in your program who might have trouble following through with all that. Absolutely. It s the clients that break the rules. What do we do with them, other than fire them, which often we want to? Well, the first thing to do, in my opinion, is to approach it from the, Oh, well, the system isn t working very well. How can we make the system better? approach. What can I do differently? How can we tweak this to be more effective, to be failsafe?

20 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 20 Let s say there s a tracking system, or let s say you make phone calls prior to meetings or homework. Or let s say you amp it up by having them call in to check in with you, not personally, but call in to leave a message on your voic every morning at 8:00 or something like that. So you are creating agreements that they can keep. You are creating agreements that when they do keep those agreements, it s helping them stay on track. So that s the first approach. How can I improve the system to be more effective? I assume that is not my client s fault. I assume that if the system met their needs and addressed their challenges effectively that this wouldn t be happening. But what if it worked for everybody but you have the exception? Then it s not really about the structure, is it? It s more about that particular person for whatever reason. Yeah. So let s assume that you have a challenging client. And the system works well for most people, and then, you know, there s these exceptions. The first thing to do is to make sure that you address the process with that exception.

21 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 21 So there s two things here. There s process and content. So the content is attending the call and what you talk about during the call. So that s actually the doing of it. The process is the made-up thing. It s what s going on here? How is this working? You have to back up and talk with this client, this exception, about the relationship and about how it s working about how the process is going. Well, the way the process is set up is that you call in at these times, and you have a one-on-one, and you have the groups. And this is the way it happens. It works for most of my clients, but for some reason it s not working for you. What s going on? For instance, the client might be on the meetings, but they never send the report in. Whatever. Yeah. And this is true in any relationship that when you are involved in the content, you can t see the forest for the trees. You re just dealing with what s happening. There are times when you need to step back and look at the big picture of what s going on here and ask, Okay, what is going on? I notice a pattern here. And here s another relationship principle. Nothing is random. No human behavior is random at all. Behavior

22 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 22 follows patterns, and so never assume that anything happens just once. Here is a pattern happening with this particular person. You have to back up and address the pattern and stop trying to beat your head up against the wall and trying to fix it or make it different or criticize them for it. So it starts with a conversation of, Let s talk about what s going on here. Let s talk about how the process is going for you because here s what I notice. And then you lay out the facts. It s very, very important when you are communicating in an assertive way to start with the facts because the facts are events. They are provable and measurable. They are inarguable. If you start with your judgments, your opinions, like, I don t think this is working very well for you. I don t think you re very responsible, that s very arguable. You re going to get their resistance up. If you start with the facts, I noticed that you have missed the last three appointments that we ve made to meet on the telephone, that s a fact. It actually happened. So always start these conversations with laying out the facts. And then ask a question. Don t make an accusation or, I don t think you re benefitting from this program. I don t

23 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 23 think you re ready for this program. Always ask a question after you lay out the facts. Something like, What does that mean to you? Have them explain to you what missing the last three appointments means to them, or, What is going on for you? Have them explain to you what s going on. Then you can go on to the fix-it conversation, which is where oftentimes we want to start. Okay, let s talk about how to fix this. This is a problem. Let s fix it. Sometimes you ve got to back up and talk about the process and get clear on the process first before you can fix it. Does that help? Yeah, that s great. So you re not approaching it in a judgmental, emotional way. It s, What s the facts? What s going on? It s in those steps that you said. This is all going to be recorded. It s all going to be transcribed, so we don t have to repeat everything, but that s very good. Let me lay out a little paradigm that I think is crucial for everybody to understand, including our clients but especially ourselves as professionals. There s a tremendous difference between facts and judgments and feelings. However, our relationships don t work when we mix them up.

24 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 24 I laid out the importance of stating the facts first, but if you re not clear what the facts are, sometimes people don t really understand what a fact is. You say, Well, I am so angry with you. You are such a jerk. They are in touch with their feelings. They re in touch with their opinions. It feels so strong and so real to them. That s their reality. That, You are a jerk, seems to be a fact to them. Yes. Yeah, but it s not a fact. It s an opinion. What I ve done as a therapist many, many times is to sit down and actually teach my clients the difference. Here s what a fact is. Here s what a feeling is. Here s what an opinion is. Okay. Now let s look at this situation. What are the facts? What are your judgments or opinions about the facts or the situation? And how do you feel? What are your feelings about this? And it just makes all the difference in the world. It s like they found God or something. It s like, Oh my god! Everything makes sense now! They can cope with life. They can respond to situations more effectively once they understand the differences and they re able to separate them out. But when you ball them all up and say, I m so pissed off at you. You are such a jerk. It s like the facts of, I forgot

25 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 25 to call. I m sorry. It might be a small thing in terms of the event, but the way somebody feels and their reaction to it and their judgments about it can be very, very, very different. This is the way I think about it. This is sometimes the way I talk about it. If you were to line up 100 people up against the wall and you were to say, Okay, I forgot to call. Does that mean I m a jerk? You ask 100 people that question, how many people are going to say, Yes, that means you re a jerk? Maybe a few. But it s only a fact if you line up 100 people up against the wall and they all agree. Is the sky blue? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Did I forget to call? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Does that mean I m a jerk? Well, not really, or maybe. If there s any difference in opinion, then it s not a fact. Sometimes that helps people get it. It s like that picture on the wall is beautiful. The fact is it s a picture. The fact is it s hanging on the wall. Whether or not it s beautiful is an opinion. Okay. So that s really good stuff, David. Let me get into this topic of unmet needs because I think in some ways this is a little more subtle.

26 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 26 I ve heard so many cases of this happening over the years with my clients, and I ve had clients with this issue as well. For some reason the client has a feeling or opinion that they re not getting value from the process. Now it s not a fact that the process doesn t have value because there s a lot of other people that are getting a lot of value from it. The process seems to be going well. So it s a different situation. It s more of a fact if everybody s needs are not met. It s like we re really not providing the goods. But we re providing the goods. Virtually everybody s happy, but some people seem to be in, I don t know if you d call it victim mode, or they re stuck in some way. But what they think is a fact is there s something wrong with this program. Obviously, it s not giving me what I need. And how does one deal with that, and what are some things you can say around that? Because to them, as you say, it is a fact, I m not getting what I need. But then they have feelings and opinions around it. But wait. Back up. That is what I call a story. It s actually an opinion. It s not a fact, I m not getting what I need. It s an opinion. It s a judgment.

27 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 27 That is true. It s a fact that they said it, but what it is in itself is a story or opinion. Yes. It s their story. And all judgments or interpretations or opinions are stories. We just make them up in our heads. And we are meaning, making beings. I mean, this is what we do. We make up stories about everything. I m clear about that, but I m just not getting value from this program, and I m not sure I should stay in it. I m not sure we should continue the contract. Whatever the heck it is. Let me share with you, and I m sure you know this. I bet you know it, but I ll share it with you and for your listeners in case you don t. It s the absolute number-one secret to coaching client retention and to prevent somebody from saying, This isn t working for me, or I m not getting enough value. Okay. Underline this. We re getting gold here. The absolute number-one secret to coaching client retention is simply tracking, measuring progress. Now that can be done any number of ways. Sometimes it s done with an assessment in the beginning, and then you administer the same assessment three months later or six months later, and then you see the difference.

28 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 28 Sometimes it s done by establishing goals, and then you accomplish those goals. Then you set new goals. You accomplish those goals, or maybe you have milestones. It s simply tracking. Whatever system you use, you ve got to have some system for tracking progress. Then you make that explicit to your client in some way, and you need to, by the way, on a regular basis. Certainly in the beginning you might have some sort of assessment process, and then ongoing, you re going to have the conversation. Remember the process versus content conversation we were having? This is about process. This is about backing up. Let s look at how the process is going. And this only has to take two minutes once a month. If I m your coach and I m smart, I might take two minutes of our session once a month just to take a look at, Okay, Robert. Let s look at the big picture here. You started the month out here, and now we re here. Now your goal is to go over here. How does that jive with your understanding of where we re at? Okay. Anything you want to add to that? How are you with our progress so far? You have the conversation about it.

29 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 29 It s simply tracking, measuring progress. When you have an intangible service, especially something like coaching or consulting, we talk. We listen. We use our expertise, and we provide information and advice or support. It s very intangible. You can t see it. So it s understandable that our clients are going to get a little nervous and say, Am I getting my money s worth? Is this working for me? What we really have to do, what all of us have to do, is to create structures, meaning an assessment or a form or a tracking or a grid or spreadsheet or something, and then have the conversation and show. Just make a graph. Any measurability criterion you want, and then just graph it. Clients love that when they see the graph going up. And if the graph is going down, then that s a problem. Then we address it. Then the graph is going up, and now we re happy. So it s making our service tangible and measurable, so making it more tangible versus intangible. It s an interesting psychological fact, I believe, that when people are making progress, it s a little like children growing. Over a period of a year or something, they grow a couple inches. We don t notice that, but the growth is real. We can measure it on the door.

30 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 30 It s the same with anything. We get better at our communication skills. We re getting better at working with our clients, whatever it is you re working on with your client. But then we integrate that into our day-to-day stuff, and it s like we don t realize that we were here, and now we re here. Therefore often we think, Well, we did that. I could have done that by myself. What s the big deal? Why am I paying this consultant all this? But as you say, if you come back to measuring what you ve gotten, what s changed, what you re learning, all the way things to increase sales or other easily trackable things, I agree with you. And is your sense that a lot of coaches are missing this entirely? Yep, absolutely. And consultants. We get absorbed into our strategies and our skills and the client s goals and needs, and fixing and solving their problems and helping them get where they want to go. We forget about the process. That might work for some people, but a lot of our clients need measurability. They need to know what they re getting out of this.

31 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 31 It s like you get a bank statement every month that says how much money you get and if you get interest on a certain account, how much money you got in interest. If you have an investment account, it s going to have the graphs and everything that shows you the progress of your earnings. And we need that information. It would not work for us if we didn t get that information. And we need it even more if it s an intangible service. Yeah. You know, another aspect to this that s interesting, David, I see this a lot in training. You know, we do training. We teach people supervisory skills, leadership skills, God knows what. And then we don t go back and do any benchmarking. You know, what are their skills now compared to before? And we package the training services in such a way that that sort of tracking is optional. And while optional means more money, let s not do that. And then people really wonder what they got out of the training. Or maybe they didn t get much, and we need to provide a program that really produces results. It s funny that a lot of people are paying a lot of money to just go through the motions. Do you get what I m saying?

32 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 32 It s kind of funny. Well, we need to do training on supervisory skills, so we ll do that. We ll check that off the list, but that really doesn t help you as an independent professional. A lot of people these days do a combination of training, coaching, consulting kind of mixed together and different parts. They ll do some training and coaching follow-up, blah, blah, blah. If there s no real follow-through, it can kind of be, Wow, I ve done all this training. I really don t know if I made any difference at all. It was fun in the training sessions. Everybody liked it. I got good evaluations. But I think we have to come back and say, Well, are we really making a difference? That would change how we structured our services in many cases. Yeah. I think of it like vitamins or health food supplements where we know we need to do something like get this supervisory training or get this consultant to help us with this particular thing. We know we need to do something about that. And so we do it. We make the decision, Okay, now I ve handled it. Congratulations to me.

33 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 33 And really, there is a very serious, very real problem or goal to address, and it needs more than our cursory attention, but whose job is it to make sure that happens? Is it the client, or is it the person that knows a lot about the subject who is hired to address that subject? This is our responsibility as professionals, I believe. We know way more than the client about their area of need. We are the ones that need to come in and make sure there s assessment and tracking and follow-through, and there s system change and there s buy-in on all levels of management, and on and on and on. We can t expect that to come from the client. They re hiring us because they have a need, and their inclination, human nature, is to just feel good about doing something about it and then expect somebody else to fix it. Right. So at the very beginning of contracting with a client, you re entering into a relationship in which you can make a profound difference with that individual, company or organization, or you can just sort of go through the motions. And I think that s a very challenging concept for a lot of people. It s like, This is the program they want, so I ll do

34 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 34 it. And we forget that that isn t a very profound relationship. I ve never thought of it exactly this way, but if I want to make a profound impact on my clients, not only will that help them, which is good for the common cause and the planet in general, but they ll get better results, and we ll get better referrals because people will say they came in. They did this. Not only were they nice to work with, our sales are up by 25% this year. And they really stuck with us to make it happen. It s sort of I m entering in a relationship, but I m not passive in this relationship. I m very proactive. I m not just saying, Oh, tell me what to do, and I ll do it for whatever price. So it s a higher calling that we really talked about. It s just like getting married. It s like, Well, we ll get married. I ll just hang around and be my old self. And, you know, I ll do all my old habits. And I m talking as someone who s been married more than once, David. I relate. I relate. We forget that it s a co-active partnership. Why be married if you re not going to bring something to it and

35 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 35 the partnership isn t going to bring some more joy and more something into the world other than just being our same old selves? Right. You re not getting married just for the regular sex or to have somebody wash your clothes or cook for you. Yeah. That s called a dead marriage. You re not working with a client or a company just for the money. And if the client or company were just going to give you money and you didn t deliver, then you would not continue in your profession very long. We can t be motivated just by my money. So here s the big question when it comes to professionals and the quality of their work with their clients and the results they re getting. The big question is do you want to? Is this your passion? If you are expressing your passion, if this is something you feel very, very strongly about, then that is the kind of energy that the client needs to address all their needs effectively, to do a good job, to dot your I s and cross your T s, to follow through and get results. Passion is the key in a coaching relationship and any consultant relationship. Or any other professional service business, really.

36 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 36 Yeah. If you don t care, if you re doing it for the money and you really don t care, you don t have a lot of energy around it, you re happy to do the job and get paid but you don t have a lot of energy around it, then you re not going to be effective, and you re not going to do a good job for your clients. Your client s not going to get the results. And they re not someone they re going to want to continue the relationship with. So in terms of taking on a client, the question I would want you to ask yourself is do you want to? Forget the money. There s many ways to make money. There s many different clients you can work with. But do you want to? Only take on a client or only do a job if you really want to, if you have passion for that. And then you ll do what it takes to do a good job and get the results. And if not, if it s not working, it s not the client s fault. It s not the company s fault. It s you just don t have the energy, maybe the expertise, but certainly the energy to get the job done because you re not following your passion. When we follow our passion, magic happens. We get creative. We become brilliant. It s cool. It s fun. When I started Relationship Coaching Institute, I started creating all these relationship coaching training

37 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 37 programs. Man, my creative energy was zooming. I was more productive in this period of my life than ever. So what I ve experienced and found is when you find your passion, when you re following your passion, you become brilliant. You re able to accomplish things and create things. You ll amaze yourself. If you re listening to this and you re not feeling passionate, you re not feeling like you re amazing yourself, then you need to do a little work to identify what your passion is, let go of things that you don t have energy for, and follow where your energy wants to go. I guarantee you it s not going to be for the money. Yeah. This is a very, very important thing, so I m glad we hit on that. I want to talk about something else that s related to that, and it s called commitment. All these things overlap and intertwine with each other, but as you were talking, I keep coming back to the Mastery program because I m so into it right now. I m working with these 18 people. We re having a blast and all of that, so I m always thinking of that because those are the clients I m working with. But I noticed that a shift happened in my business when I created this as a one-year program. It was like, Okay, I m

38 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 38 going to be working with these people for a year. I better like these people. Not only am I going to bring my passion to it. That s almost a given with me with my marketing coaching. But I want people that I feel can really give something back as well. They re not just, My marketing sucks and I don t know what to do. Can you help me? I don t want to do anything, kind of people. That would be no fun. So because I know I m going to be with these people for a year, I m really thinking in the initial conversation. I m trying to really get to know these people. I m trying to connect with them. I m trying to see if we can have a good, interesting, interactive conversation where they answer the questions, and they give me feedback. You know the sense of what I m talking about. I wonder sometimes when we go into a meeting to talk with a client if we re really looking at this from a commitment standpoint, you know? I had this conversation with one of my clients recently, and I really pointed out it looks like this is someone who really wants a partnership, that wants a long-term partnership to help in leadership development.

39 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 39 You need to look at it that way as opposed to this is just another gig, because if it s like that, it just won t have the momentum to take you where you d like to go. Something just shifted in her, and she went, and she closed the deal. She got a bigger project than she thought. She s so jazzed about working with him. It s this passion, this commitment. And of course we always talked about commitment in relationships. If the commitment isn t there, it s a pretty draggy relationship. Yeah. And you know, commitment is something you do, and it s also something that you think, the way you think. It s the attitude that you bring to it. One of the things I did want to make sure that we talk about today in some context, and maybe this is a good context, is the role of attitude. Our attitude is composed of our beliefs, our interpretations, our opinions. It s sort of our frame of reference as to how we re looking at the world. We all have a particular attitude. We all bring certain beliefs to things. And when it comes to commitment, what I ve discovered, amazingly, is that very few people know exactly what commitment is.

40 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 40 Let me illustrate that by sharing with you that as a relationship coach and couples therapist, every couple that I ve seen over 30 years, every single couple that is not married I mean, if they re married, it s obvious. You ve got a ring. You ve made a legal commitment. You re committed. It s not a question. If they come in and they re not married, the first question I ask them is, Are you guys in a committed relationship? because I want to respect that. I want to know whether you ve made vows or you have some sort of commitment that is not obvious, because I need to know. If I m going to work with you as your professional, I need to know where you re at in your relationship. And guess what, Robert. Let me ask you. How many of those couples do you think said, No, we re not really in a committed relationship? Not many. One hundred percent of them say, Oh, yeah, we re really committed. Whether they are or not is another question. And so obviously, they don t understand what commitment is. And commitment sounds good, and it

41 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 41 feels good, and they want to believe they re committed, but commitment, or my definition of commitment in a relationship anyway, it is a formal, symbolic act, and it s irreversible. And it is forever. Or if it s not forever, then it s definitely like in your case, it s for a year. When you make a commitment, there are no exits. There s, Well, I ll do this if it works, or I ll do this if nothing else gets in the way. No. When you make a commitment, it s, I m absolutely committing to this, regardless of whatever. There s no exits. But that s an attitude. That s my attitude about commitment. That s my understanding of commitment. Or it s a mindset. Whatever you want to call it. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of people haven t thought about this. They don t really understand commitment. They haven t taken a position on commitment, and when they say, Yes, Robert, I m committed to you for a year, you don t know what that really means to them. You don t know if they re really saying, Yes, Robert, I m committing to meet with you every week for a year if something else doesn t get in the way.

42 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 42 Well, we have a deeper conversation about that. I promise you. It s similar to what you re saying. I mean, there s no alternative. I have an absolute commitment to you. You have to have an absolute commitment to the program, yadda yadda. But I hear what you re saying. Often commitment, as you say, for people is, I m committed unless things don t work out, unless I get upset, unless this, unless something better comes along. That s not commitment. So when you re dealing in a relationship and you re committed and you re not getting committed behavior from this person, remember the process versus content. You ve got to back up. You have to address the commitment level. You have to address what s going on in the big picture here. It s no longer about the coaching and about their marketing and about their business. Now it s about what s going on in their relationship between you two and how they re showing up and how you re showing up. You have to get back in the process. Very interesting. So we ve covered a lot of interesting things. We ve talked about boundaries, issues, searching for solutions, passion, commitment. Are there any other

43 SECRETS TO GREAT CLIENT RELATIONSHIPS 43 sort of real important keystones of relationships, any kind of relationship, but we re talking about business in this case, that you find are really important to touch on and to explore? There is another concept, another aspect of the human experience that comes into play here. We talked about attitude, and we talked about judgments and feelings and all that stuff. Another aspect of it that I think would be good to mention is experience, our experience. And your experience just happens, right? If you go to a movie, you re sitting in the theater, you re watching a movie, your experience at that movie, your reaction to it, how you take it in, how you feel, the thoughts that pop into your head while you re watching it, that just happens. It s automatic. We can t help it. However, we have a choice about our attitudes and our actions. We don t have a choice over our experience. And just like it s important for people to understand the difference between facts and judgments, it s important for everybody to take responsibility for and to be aware of their experience, but to make conscious choices about what to do about it.

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